Getting confused with ATC order...Violation?

The concept of being in command is often new to a flight student. I
can't emphasize strongly enough, that the flight crew member acting as
Pilot In Command must assume command responsibility for his flight
operations, and not abandon his responsibility to others. Because of
this necessity to command, I believe becoming an airman should be a
life changing experience for those unaccustomed to commanding.

Amen.

RubberWatch wrote:
Hello-

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading. He then told me it looks like your going the wrong
direction i need you to fly 210. I got a bit locked up and said 210.
I ended up on 210 but I really kinda got "mike fright".

**** happens.

You should read back instructions to avoid this, Cessna 12A, heading 110,
so unless ATC is asleep you either hear nothing back or you get corrected.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if this would constitute a violation and
if I might receive something in the mail, etc? He later told me to
"resume own navigaion" and I did not know what that meant...I asked
him if I could do my airwork and he said resume on navigation meant I
can do anything I want.

Hardly a violation unless you flew into class B or some other airspace
you weren't cleared for.

The phrase "resume own navigation" means exactly that, go where you think
you should go, ATC is no longer giving you vectors.

He did not ask me to call a land line or anything like that, though
when I requested to change to my CTAF as I had the airport in site, he
said frequency change approved and squalk VFR when I am on the ground.

Normally, when the airport is in sight, you say that to ATC. They then
terminate flight following and tell you when (usually immediately)
when to switch to 1200.

If you are a LONG way out and just want to check CTAF for what's going
on, say that explicitly, as in something like, Cessna 12A, change to
Unicom, desire to maintain flight following until closer.

Switch back to ATC and tell them you are back.

Hopefully you append "student pilot" to the end of your initial request
and on each switch to a new controller. They then talk slower and
are more patient with you.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Hi

In article ,
wrote:

Hopefully you append "student pilot" to the end of your initial request
and on each switch to a new controller. They then talk slower and
are more patient with you.

That's good advice. In the UK we now have an official 'Student' prefix. This
was introduced after a student died in a crash where some non-standard
phraseology was used which it was felt contributed to it (a shift change of
ATC staff occurred while he was flying, and the new controllers didn't know
he was a student on his first solo).

I've used it myself and do find that controllers here will make an effort to
speak more slowly and clearly in response.

Andy

In article ,
wrote:
RubberWatch wrote:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading. He then told me it looks like your going the wrong
direction i need you to fly 210. I got a bit locked up and said 210.
I ended up on 210 but I really kinda got "mike fright".

**** happens.

You should read back instructions to avoid this, Cessna 12A, heading 110,
so unless ATC is asleep you either hear nothing back or you get corrected.

That helps but still doesn't prevent brain farts. I was flying by
SFO the other day, and got a vector of 010 to avoid some departures,
read it back as 010, and then had a brain fart and turned to 110.
ATC called me on it, but by that point I was clear of the departure
path, and they turned me back on course.

To the original poster, unless you get a phone number to call, ATC
correcting your heading is the end of it. **** happens.

John
--
John Clear - http://www.clear-prop.org/

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 17:01:21 -0700 (PDT), RubberWatch
wrote:

Hello-

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210.

What class of airspace were you in at the time?

I thought he said 110 and I flew on that heading. He then told me it
looks like your going the wrong direction i need you to fly 210.

At this stage in your training, you might want to consider informing
the controller on initial call-up, that you are a student. But it
sounds like no paint was swapped, and everything worked out.

I got a bit locked up and said 210.
I ended up on 210 but I really kinda got "mike fright".


The surest cure for radio communications uneasiness is a copy of Bob
Gardner's "Say Again, Please":
http://www.asa2fly.com/Communication..._product1.aspx

Once you know what to expect and what is expected, you'll be more
comfortable.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if this would constitute a violation and
if I might receive something in the mail, etc?

Only the controller knows for sure. :-)

The clock is ticking.

It won't hurt you become familiar with how to file an ASRS form:
http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/electronic.html


http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/overview/briefing/br_6.html
The Immunity Concept

(FAA Advisory Circular AC No. 00-46D)

c. The filing of a report with NASA concerning an incident or
occurrence involving a violation of 49 U.S.C. Subtitle IV, or the
FAR, is considered by FAA to be indicative of a constructive
attitude. Such an attitude will tend to prevent future violations.
Accordingly, although a finding of a violation may be made,
neither a civil penalty nor certificate suspension will be imposed
if:

The violation was inadvertent and not deliberate;

The violation did not involve a criminal offense, or accident, or
action under 49U.S.C. Section 44709 which discloses a lack of
qualification or competency, which are wholly excluded from this
policy:

The person has not been found in any prior FAA enforcement action
to have committed a violation of 49 U.S. C. Subtitle VIII, or any
regulation promulgated there for a period of 5 years prior to the
date of the occurrence; and

The person proves that, within 10 days after the violation, he or
she completed and delivered or mailed a written report of the
incident or occurrence to NASA under ASRS. See paragraphs 5c and
7b. NOTE: Paragraph 9 does not apply to air traffic controllers.



He later told me to
"resume own navigaion" and I did not know what that meant...I asked
him if I could do my airwork and he said resume on navigation meant I
can do anything I want.


ATC phraseology is standardized. A competent airman uses standard
terms when communicating with ATC. You'll find it all he
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff.../PCG/index.htm

That said, you did good asking the controller for clarification.
Never be afraid to query the controller about any possible
misunderstanding.

He did not ask me to call a land line or anything like that, though
when I requested to change to my CTAF as I had the airport in site, he
said frequency change approved and squalk VFR when I am on the ground.

Any thoughts?
SD

Your instructor will be impressed when you tell him you filed a NASA
form and now know how to communicate with ATC in standard phraseology.

[rec.aviation.student added]

RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.

Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you. If you read back 210 and
then flew 110, that's potentially a problem (although probably not in this
case, since you fixed it). If you didn't read back the heading, that also can
potentially be a problem because the burden is upon you to fly the correct
heading if you didn't read it back.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 03:51:30 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

If you read back 110 and he said nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you.

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.

Larry Dighera writes:

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.

In that case, what's the advantage of a readback? If the pilot is expected to
hear and obey correctly, why wouldn't the controller be held to the same
standard?

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 05:42:59 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Larry Dighera writes:

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.

In that case, what's the advantage of a readback?

The controller is still expected to listen for, and correct any,
errors in the pilot's read-back, but all responsibility for compliance
with ATC instructions is apparently solely the responsibility of the
pilot.

If the pilot is expected to
hear and obey correctly, why wouldn't the controller be held to the same
standard?

The Pilot In Command is solely responsible for operation of his
flight. The change was questioned at the time it was implemented.
There is little question in my mind that the FAA seeks to minimize
their liability exposure.

Larry Dighera writes:

The Pilot In Command is solely responsible for operation of his
flight. The change was questioned at the time it was implemented.
There is little question in my mind that the FAA seeks to minimize
their liability exposure.

It sounds grossly unfair. I'm surprised that the agency can make this type of
unilateral change. What legal recourse do pilots have?

Actually, I have issues with any agency that can enact and enforce regulations
unilaterally with force of law (the IRS springs to mind, but such agencies are
legion). It seems improper that any such agency can extend or withhold
something like a license based solely on its own discretion, without some sort
of due process or oversight--or am I missing some sort of procedure of this
nature that applies in the case of the FAA?