Previous Vans- RV builders

Hello All,

I am getting ready to order the kit for RV-9. I would enjoy hearing
from the ones that have built or worked on the RV line. I would like
to hear of the good traits and bad ones also.

Please reply here so it can be shared.

Thanks

Sam

I built one of the first RV-9A's just a few years ago. I loved it! It was
my first kit and I appreciate Van's attention to detail, now that I am
building a different kit. I sold the "9" due to financial reasons, but now
I am building a composite kit that someone bought in 1997 and gave up on.
The first thing I noticed was the absence of detailed BLUE PRINTS! This
company only offers a manual with some illustrations. The second thing I
notice is I am missing lots of parts and the since there are no real
blueprints it is hard to find out what the part actually is!

The short answer is that Van's Aircraft offers exceptional kits at a VERY
fair price in my opinion. The RV-9A kit took to the air in around 1600
hours of building for me. I installed a Eggenfellner engine, and warp drive
prop. It handled great and sold for a high price. Turned out to be a good
investment in addition to a thrill to build and fly!

Hope this helps.


"Iceman" wrote in message
...
Hello All,

I am getting ready to order the kit for RV-9. I would enjoy hearing
from the ones that have built or worked on the RV line. I would like
to hear of the good traits and bad ones also.

Please reply here so it can be shared.

Thanks

Sam

"firstflight" wrote:

a nice report on building an RV9A. I have a question about one of your
statements, though:

It handled great and sold for a high price. Turned out to be a good
investment in addition to a thrill to build and fly!

Can you define your terms? This is the first I have ever heard of an
airplane, homebuilt or not, that was not in commercial service
described as "a good investment". Did you keep detailed records of
every cost you incurred other than the kit? And if you did, when you
take the sale price less the kit price less other costs (other than
reusable tools), what do you figure you earned per hour on your 1600
hours of labor?

This is a serious question, since different people will define "a good
investment" differently depending on their circumstances and
preferences. You may have had so much fun building that you
legitimately consider it a good investment if in the end you only lost
$3/hr on your building time compared to $5/hr you might have spent on
other entertainment. Someone giving up a $20/hour second job to get
time to build the plane for resale will not consider it a good
investment unless he or she can resell for more than hard costs +
$32,000.
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

time to build the plane for resale will not consider it a good
investment unless he or she can resell for more than hard costs +


Sounds like setting up an aircraft factory?

How do you think commercial aircraft companies build their bank balance? And
their collection of jigs, tools, pencils, brochures and that little old shed
that they stick those bloody elephants together in?

The cost of building anything can be profitable. And the cost of building
speciality products can give a higher return than unskilled labour could get
if you do your sums right. However, you must also allow for a learning
curve, and if you have a range of the required skills to start with, then
you may find that you don't have to spend as much time training.

Hope this helps,
Peter

Iceman wrote:

I am getting ready to order the kit for RV-9. I would enjoy hearing
from the ones that have built or worked on the RV line. I would like
to hear of the good traits and bad ones also.

If you're close to buying you've probably heard all the
glowing things about flying the airplanes, so I'll skip that,
although they're true.

Goods: Usually excellent support, well-founded and apparently
well-managed, stable company. Good support system. Huge builders'
network so if the company can't help, someone else probably can.

Well-known and understood airplanes without significant 'design
peculiarities' make them easy to certify and to find someone
to work on if the need arises.

Van's is continually improving the designs, and if you buy
partial kits as you progress you can often take advantage of the
improvements. Of course if they improve the section you just
finished you might not look at that as a positive g.

The company does pretty thorough test programs on the airplanes.

Designed by an engineer, not an artist :-)

Others: Anything less-than-good I might say about the kits
would be based on my 1991 RV-4 kit, and they've changed so much
since then that the problems I had are probably no longer valid.
The only other possibly negative thing I can think of is maybe
the price compared to other sort-of-similar kits, BUT! when you
consider what you get in the kit and what you end up with I think
it's well worth it.
And maybe for the tri-gear models: "Is that a Grumman?"

All in all if you want to build an airplane it's hard to find
fault with the RV series. In the end it's always a personal
decision, but they're really nice kits from a good company.

Dave 'Van's cans' Hyde

RV-4 (still) in flight test, EAA technical counselor

alexy wrote in message . ..

what do you figure you earned per hour on your 1600
hours of labor?

As long as he made back more then he spent, I think he can say it was
a good investment. Why did he have to make money on his time? If
he'd invested the same amount of money in something else, and then
spent the time watching TV, would you have asked him how much he
earned on the 1600 hours he watched TV?

My guess is he learned alot while building the RV (that also has
value), and evidently enjoyed it, as he's now building something else.
Sounds to me like he invested his time wisely. More Americans should
do the same.

Rich

(Rich) wrote:

alexy wrote in message . ..

what do you figure you earned per hour on your 1600
hours of labor?

As long as he made back more then he spent, I think he can say it was
a good investment. Why did he have to make money on his time? If
he'd invested the same amount of money in something else, and then
spent the time watching TV, would you have asked him how much he
earned on the 1600 hours he watched TV?

My guess is he learned alot while building the RV (that also has
value), and evidently enjoyed it, as he's now building something else.
Sounds to me like he invested his time wisely. More Americans should
do the same.

Rich

Rich, please reread my post to which you are replying. I explicitly
acknowledge the validity of the viewpoint you raise here (which is
also how I would probably look at it personally), but asked for
details, since others may legitimately took at "a good investment"
differently. Cannot you see how others might legitimately see this
differently than we do?
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Okay - I was away from the computer so I guessed a missed a whole dialog
here.

First of all, it was a dream come true to build AND FLY my own airplane fo
course. So Rich is right about the investment in BUILDING and experiencing
this thing called homebuilding. We were broke and I really could not afford
to build this airplane. I borrowed over my head just to build it, and then
came the insurance, tie down fees and gas to fly it! I had this pipe dream
that I would be able to make it work, but it just was not happening and we
just had baby #1 who required medical care .... bla bla bla ......... So in
the end I "MADE" $25,000 on the airplane. It took me 1600 of ACTUAL
building to put it together, which calculates out to $15.62 per hour. I
hate to think of it as an hourly job, because I have this building disorder
and will do it without pay if I can get away with it. The fact is though
that it did help us pay off some loans and get slightly above water at a
rough time in our financial lives. SO FOR US, it was a great investment.

I hope to do the same thing this time - that is build a kit and "make" more
money than I spent on it, so I can spend the extra money made on an even
bigger and better kit!! Like I said, a true disorder!

Peace!

"firstflight" wrote:

Okay - I was away from the computer so I guessed a missed a whole dialog
here.

First of all, it was a dream come true to build AND FLY my own airplane fo
course. So Rich is right about the investment in BUILDING and experiencing
this thing called homebuilding. We were broke and I really could not afford
to build this airplane. I borrowed over my head just to build it, and then
came the insurance, tie down fees and gas to fly it! I had this pipe dream
that I would be able to make it work, but it just was not happening and we
just had baby #1 who required medical care .... bla bla bla ......... So in
the end I "MADE" $25,000 on the airplane. It took me 1600 of ACTUAL
building to put it together, which calculates out to $15.62 per hour. I
hate to think of it as an hourly job, because I have this building disorder
and will do it without pay if I can get away with it. The fact is though
that it did help us pay off some loans and get slightly above water at a
rough time in our financial lives. SO FOR US, it was a great investment.

I hope to do the same thing this time - that is build a kit and "make" more
money than I spent on it, so I can spend the extra money made on an even
bigger and better kit!! Like I said, a true disorder!

Peace!


Thanks. That's just the kind of detail I was looking for. And I think
that speaks volumes about the attractiveness of the RV9, and probably
the building decisions you made along the say, that you could sell it
for $25,000 more than your hard-dollar costs.

And no, I don't think anyone really thinks of the building as a job,
but that is a helpful perspective.
--
Alex
Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

"Dave Hyde" wrote in message ...
snip
Goods: Usually excellent support, well-founded and apparently
well-managed, stable company. Good support system. Huge builders'
network so if the company can't help, someone else probably can.

I'm currently assisting friends building a -9 and a -10. I've got
to agree with Dave that the factory support is outstanding. The -9
has been going together without a hitch. The -10 is kit #9 and there
have been a few minor problems, but that's to be expected as
production ramps up. Van's has addressed the problems quickly and
shipped replacement or missing parts right away. All told, both
planes are going together with remarkable ease. Everything fits like
it's supposed to with very little modification required.


Others: Anything less-than-good I might say about the kits
would be based on my 1991 RV-4 kit, and they've changed so much
since then that the problems I had are probably no longer valid.
The only other possibly negative thing I can think of is maybe
the price compared to other sort-of-similar kits, BUT! when you
consider what you get in the kit and what you end up with I think
it's well worth it.
snip

I helped a builder on a mid-90s -6 kit and it didn't come together
as easily as the current ones. Van's quality control has improved
tremendously.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)