Oxygen regulators, medical type

Perhaps a session in an altitude chamber would change your mind cheap equipment and flying at altitude. The onset of loss of consciousness is incipient- you feel so good you don't even know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrGfElyfVE

Perhaps your club could buy a system for all members to use occasionally?

If I couldn't have quality equipment, I wouldn't do it.

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 9:51:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
But here in the East we rarely go high enough to need oxygen

A physiologist pointed out to me that a pilot's performance will often benefit from supplemental oxygen well below the levels stipulated by the FAR. If you have an EDS system, you might start to use O2 at a lower altitude than you anticipate.

Related, Dr Dan wrote a good article about the reliability of using a pulse oximeter to evaluate the efficacy of your supplemental oxygen system:

http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/...-p18-20-22.pdf

Edited for clarity:

Dr Dan wrote a good article about the UNRELIABILITY of using a pulse oximeter to evaluate the efficacy of your supplemental oxygen system:

http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/...-p18-20-22.pdf

Mountain High...

On 11/6/2015 5:52 AM, Tango Eight wrote:
They don't have any built in back up protection, even in the event that the battery just runs down. Really?

I was at 17,900' about 90 miles from home in the Colorado Rockies when
my Mountain High system began chirping its alarm. I flew a high speed
final glide home (there was a lot of lift to reduce descent) thinking I
was out of oxygen. On the ground, I found plenty of O2 in my tank so I
swapped the batteries in the electronic box and everything went back to
normal. I had the batteries in the cockpit but didn't think of swapping
until I was on the ground.

--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 6:51:25 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Thanks for the advice, Mark. I'd love an EDS system. But here in the East we rarely go high enough to need oxygen, it seems that spending $1000 on a system is overkill for use once a year or so. Also, we have very few convenient places around here to refill, other than at "wave camp".

Do those medical regulators not have a diaphragm? You'd think that's necessary, in order to shut off (at least mostly) the flow coming from the high pressure cylinder? I was guessing they have a diaphragm-based pressure reduction followed by an orifice to set the flow rate, but I may be wrong. And perhaps even the diaphragm system would have some leakage through the high pressure side valve even when it's supposedly shut because the diaphragm senses that the output pressure is high. Then again, these regulators have an "off" position, on the same knob as the non-zero flow rates. If that is simply a zero-size orifice, wouldn't the pressure then build up dangerously in the low-pressure side of that device?

I also agree that you should not cobble an Oxygen System. Please read this article about Hypoxia

http://www.craggyaero.com/hypoxia.htm

Mountain High has the constant flow systems including a cylinder price range from $500 to $600.

http://www.craggyaero.com/xcr_systems1.htm

EDS system with a small bottle about $849

http://www.craggyaero.com/edssystem1.htm

Call to get exact prices and cylinder sizes.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

If you can't afford a proper oxygen system, I will give you an A-8 regulator and Oxymizer flow meter if you promise not to try a non certified oxygen system.
johnsinclair210(at)yahoo.com

What's the difference, if any, in the principle of operation of the regulators in these constant-flow systems vs. the medical ones? (Other then them not having a flow restrictor built in.) In both cases, if the output is blocked (flow valve closed), does the regulator ensure the high input (cylinder) pressure does not bleed into the output?

OK, Moshe, apparently you aren't reading this. You are still in the dark about what I am saying. ALL Regulators have a flow restrictor. That is what they do. (Got it?) SOME regulators do not prevent the pressure from building up on the low pressure side. SOME have a diaphragm that keeps the pressure on the low side from equaling the high side pressure if the flow is shut off completely. These are designed for aviation. Medical regulators are not designed for aviation. You are planning to use this in aviation. Use a regulator and system designed for aviation. Can I be any more clear?

Mark, please stop shouting. I am trying to learn how these systems are designed. Whether medical or aviation, their purpose is to convert a very high and non-constant pressure (in the cylinder) into a constant flow at low pressure (into your cannula or mask). Here is what I've garnered so far, which may or may not be correct, but give me facts not labels:

A "pressure regulator" per se regulates pressure, not flow. *IF* its output pressure is constant, then the flow from there through a given small orifice will be constant, even as the source cylinder pressure decreases as the oxygen is used up. This orifice is the flow regulator, separate from the pressure regulator. It operates at a much lower pressure (20-50 PSI) than the cylinder pressure (1000-2000 PSI).

These two "regulators" may be combined in the same physical unit, or separated by a hose. For use in a glider where you cannot reach (or even look at) the pressure regulator on the cylinder, you would want the flow regulator separated and within reach. A typical pellet type flow meter which has a needle valve to adjust the flow then serves as the flow regulator. The pressure in the hose upstream of that meter needs to be reasonably low (say under 50 PSI). If you close that flow valve, what keeps the hose pressure from building up? That's the job of the pressure regulator.

There is a diagram of a diaphragm type pressure regulator here, making its operation clear:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_regulator

My question relates to the high pressure valve that is operated by the diaphragm of the pressure regulator, labeled a "poppet" in that diagram. When "closed", to what extent does it leak?

Dear Moshe..

The reason people are getting frustrated as it is not just your life you are risking but those on the ground and in the air with you. If you want to know about medical oxygen systems contact a medical supplier. You keep asking questions like you are going to try to build an aviation oxy system out of medical oxy system, stop it, that is incredibly, selfish and stupid. I have never insulted anyone on this group, but come on!

I had the proper oyx system and on one flight I noticed I was not making good decisions, was confused about what my computer was telling me and I ended up landing with full ballast without knowing until the ship felt heavy on roll out (could have had a nasty fatal stall as I did not fly faster for higher wing loading). Had kink in the plastic tubing. After that I started to fly with a oxymeter on my finger. Point being do not take chances with life support, period end of story! If you cannot figure this out, you should not be driving let alone flying. As I said earlier, if you do not want to spend the $400 it takes for an oxy system, stay below 12,500. But frankly I would have to question any of your judgement, due to your persistent line of questioning. How about asking if anyone has a used aerox system for sale instead?


On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 9:35:49 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Mark, please stop shouting. I am trying to learn how these systems are designed. Whether medical or aviation, their purpose is to convert a very high and non-constant pressure (in the cylinder) into a constant flow at low pressure (into your cannula or mask). Here is what I've garnered so far, which may or may not be correct, but give me facts not labels: