Gasohol

"ktbr" wrote in message
...
Denny wrote:
Hampton Airport in SE New Hampshire sells straight mogas with no
additives. They buy it by the tankload at the terminal in Portland ME
before the bad stuff goes in.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford


The joke on us all is that gas pumped to your local distribution
terminal has no alcohol in it... At the distribution terminal are huge
tanks of gas, and smaller tnaks of alcohol, dye, additives, etc...
The driver pulls up with his tanker... Keys in who the gas is for
Shell, Marathon, ETC.and what the octane rating is and the computer
selects the appropriate base stock of gasoline and mixes in the proper
additives and dyes as it pumps the load to his tanker, including the
alcohol... We are being hosed by the oil companies, in cahoots with
the government, in more ways than just price...

It is true that all oil companies fuel is essentially the same,
and has been true for a long time. Explain how the government is
somewhow in "cahoots" with the oil companies? Federal, state and
local governments together make more on a gallon of gas than the
oil companies do.

http://www.redplanetcartoons.com/wor...7gasprices.jpg

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
et...
Ken Finney wrote:

I already am, but there an STC for diesels in 172s.


Running on Jet-A, not Biodiesel.

AKAIK, Jet-A, Diesel Fuel, and Bio-Diesel all solve the Ethanol problem and
diesel engines have better thermal efficiency.

Actually, in many ways, this whole series of discussions reminds me of a
poster that I used to see as a kid, which said:
"When you're up to your ass in aligators, remember
that you came here to drain the swamp!"

With that in mind, remember that the purpose of the mogas stc's, and the
research leading up to them, was to alleviate the lead-fouling casued by the
use of 100-115LL in some of the older designed low compression engines. It
was a maintenance and reliability issue and was not related to any cost per
gallon spread between avgas and mogas. At that time, IIRC, avgas contained
more lead than it does today.

Also, with that in mind, the modern development of diesel aircraft engines
was a response to the possible, or probably, end of avgas production as
avgas is a small and shrinking market niche and the possibility remains that
leaded fuel could be completely phased out. Ethanol has the octane, but is
problematic (deliberate understatement) to store in aircraft fuel
tanks--even if all to the material compatability issues are resolved. OTOH,
supplies of Jet-A (and Jet-B where applicable) seem assured well into the
future. The greater efficiency of diesel engines is an excellent bonus; but
was not part of the original purpose.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
.. .

"Ken Finney" wrote in message
...

"Al G" wrote in message
...

"Ken Finney" wrote in message
...

"Al G" wrote in message
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"Ken Finney" wrote in message
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clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 May 2007 05:11:27 GMT, tony roberts
wrote:


Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label
gasoline
contaminated with alcohol?

Worse.
I read that, starting in 2007, in some places, California and some
Canadian Provinces included, it is regulated that all gasoline sold
must
contain at least 5% alcohol/ethanol.

Tony
Here in Ontario I was told not all gasoline must have 5% alky, but
5%
of all fuel sold must be alky - so 50% of all fuel sold being E10
satisfies the requirement. In practice, virtually all 87 octane
will
be e10. Premium 91 will (from some companies, at least) be E0,
making
the blended 89 E5. Since significantly over half the gasoline sold
in
Ontario is 87 octane, this would excede the requirements. - Just
from
what I've been told, but you can never trust the elected idiots, or
worse yet the beurocrats


IF I ever get a plane, all these silly fuel issues would be a real
irritant. I haven't been paying much attention to the new diesel
aircraft engines becoming available. Since I should be making my
own
biodiesel by the end of this Summer (for something less than 45
cents
a
gallon), are any of the new diesels in the O-200/Rotax 912 class?




What do you grow to make biodiesel?


Relatives that own restuarants and have to pay to dispose of waste
fryer
oil!



You grow relatives?


Well, somebody planted the seed and they tend to grow on their own. I
just
fertilize them now and then!



What do you actually do to the waste fryer oil to make it useful as
biodiesel?




Filter it. (ref. Myth Busters)

Al G

"BT" wrote in message
...

And that means that all of us using gasohol are getting worse gas mileage
than we would get with straight gasoline. If the fuel is 10% ethanol that
is 10% less gasoline being pumped while the price has gone up double in
the last two years. Energy bill of 2005, eh?????

The oil companies recently blamed the Bush Administration's emphasis on
converting to bio fuels as the cause for the price increase in gasoline.
Their statement: If they (bush) would support gasoline, then the oil
companies would spend money on additional refineries to meet the demand
and price could stay low. But with the emphasis on conversion to bio fuels
and alternative energy, the oil companies have no incentives to
rebuild/repair/build new refineries to meet the increasing consumption
demand.

Got a cite for that? That's just one of the reasons I've seen them give,
amongst others are, botique fuels, world-wide demand, drillingand
exploration restrictions, capacity running near 100%...


So they say as they pocket record profits.

http://www.redplanetcartoons.com/wor...7gasprices.jpg

BTW...do you know the difference between a "PROFIT" and a "Profit Margin"?

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Blueskies wrote:
And that means that all of us using gasohol are getting worse gas
mileage than we would get with straight gasoline.

I have personally verified that to be true in my vehicles.

No big secret.

Don't be surprised to find that there's a lot of evaporation from the tanks,
either.

In article .com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

I tried the Alka Seltzer trick on some denatured alcohol -- no result.
It did not fizz!- Hide quoted text -

You talking about "rubbing alcohol"? We tested it with that, and it
worked for us.

Fizzing, that is...


nope -- "Denatured Alcohol" purchased in a gallon can.

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:19:59 -0400, "Peter Dohm"
wrote:



What do you actually do to the waste fryer oil to make it useful as
biodiesel?


You remove the glycerine

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
.. .

"Ken Finney" wrote in message
...

"Al G" wrote in message
...

"Ken Finney" wrote in message
...

"Al G" wrote in message
...

"Ken Finney" wrote in message
...

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 May 2007 05:11:27 GMT, tony roberts
wrote:


Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label
gasoline
contaminated with alcohol?

Worse.
I read that, starting in 2007, in some places, California and some
Canadian Provinces included, it is regulated that all gasoline sold
must
contain at least 5% alcohol/ethanol.

Tony
Here in Ontario I was told not all gasoline must have 5% alky, but
5%
of all fuel sold must be alky - so 50% of all fuel sold being E10
satisfies the requirement. In practice, virtually all 87 octane
will
be e10. Premium 91 will (from some companies, at least) be E0,
making
the blended 89 E5. Since significantly over half the gasoline sold
in
Ontario is 87 octane, this would excede the requirements. - Just
from
what I've been told, but you can never trust the elected idiots, or
worse yet the beurocrats


IF I ever get a plane, all these silly fuel issues would be a real
irritant. I haven't been paying much attention to the new diesel
aircraft engines becoming available. Since I should be making my
own
biodiesel by the end of this Summer (for something less than 45
cents
a
gallon), are any of the new diesels in the O-200/Rotax 912 class?




What do you grow to make biodiesel?


Relatives that own restuarants and have to pay to dispose of waste
fryer
oil!



You grow relatives?


Well, somebody planted the seed and they tend to grow on their own. I
just
fertilize them now and then!



What do you actually do to the waste fryer oil to make it useful as
biodiesel?


A common misconception is that biodiesel is just filtered vegetable oil;
this is not the case. Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) (and Waste Vegetable Oil
(WVO), for that matter) don't have the proper viscosity to run in a diesel
engine unless they are heated to the 140 F to 170 F range. More
importantly, they solidify at too high a temperature and will clog the
injector pump and injectors. Biodiesel is vegetable oil that has gone
through the transesterification process. Simplified, you mix many parts
vegetable oil with one part methanol and a little bit of lye, then heat and
stir the mixture. After a while, you have a tank of cloudy oil with
glycerine on the bottom. You then bubble air through the oil until it is
no longer cloudy, and the clear oil is biodiesel.

"Matt Barrow" wrote:
http://www.redplanetcartoons.com/wor...7gasprices.jpg

It varies of course with location, but for a gallon of branded gas sold
in California the average values appear to be[1]:

$3.44 Retail price per gallon.
$0.62 Taxes (18%)
$1.61 Crude oil cost (47%)

Profit margins vary a lot by company and over time, but a mid-term (not
long term) average of ~8% seems a useful number.[2] Though Exxon managed
to get nearly 11% last year.[3] So for the above $3.44 gallon of gas,
and if they were still getting 11%, their profit would have been:

$0.38 Oil company profit.

So the $0.09 in the cartoon may be the gas station owner's EBITDA per
gallon.

The industries that really have high profit margins are banking, drugs,
and software. People rarely complain about price gouging from Microsoft
or other software companies, but their profit margins are quite large
relative to other industries. And some people wonder why I'm still in
the software business. ;-)

[1] http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html
[2] http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html
[3] http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/01/news...xxon/index.htm

"Matt Barrow" wrote:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/c...oon051507c.gif

Agreed. There is not a single kernel of evidence to validate growing
corn for the purpose of using the resulting alcohol as fuel.