Eclipse 500

Hi all,

I was very impressed by the article on the Eclipse 500 in the latest AOPA
magazine. After so much skepticism, criticism, and so forth, it appears
that the promised aircraft is about to be delivered. I was particularly
impressed by the description of the development process, and by the
comprehensive training program that is being created. It's nice to see
such forward-thinking being implemented in today's GA environment.

What is your reaction to this plane?

Neil

What is your reaction to this plane?

I like the way the on-board computer system is integrated into many
every-day items from the get-go. The engines, avionics, and environmental
systems are all very high-tech, and should be easier to operate and
trouble-shoot than any other jet.

On the other end of the scale, I like the way they've kept things simple
where they could. Using simple mechanical connections for the control
surfaces and landing gear saves $$$ both now, and during maintenance.
Making sure everything is cheaply and easily maintained is essential to
their mission, and it looks like they're going down the right road.

That said, it'll never be in my hangar. But I wish them well.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
On the other end of the scale, I like the way they've kept things simple
where they could. Using simple mechanical connections for the control
surfaces and landing gear saves $$$ both now, and during maintenance.
Making sure everything is cheaply and easily maintained is essential to
their mission, and it looks like they're going down the right road.

"Cheaply" is not a word I like to associate with aircrafy maintenance. :-))

It sounds great but the price has already risen almost 40% (in constant
dollars) for the initial $840K. I know of more than one person that put
down a deposit and won't be able to pay for the airplane unless they win the
lotto.

Mike
MU-2


"Neil Gould" wrote in message
.. .
Hi all,

I was very impressed by the article on the Eclipse 500 in the latest AOPA
magazine. After so much skepticism, criticism, and so forth, it appears
that the promised aircraft is about to be delivered. I was particularly
impressed by the description of the development process, and by the
comprehensive training program that is being created. It's nice to see
such forward-thinking being implemented in today's GA environment.

What is your reaction to this plane?

Neil

The plane looks great but the cost has risen so much from the original plan
such that it is now "evolutionary" and not "revolutionary."

The ability of the company to provide long-term support is a key question
because an orphaned airplane would lose lots of value.

Therefore, I think for anyone considering a VLJ, the Cessna Mustang is a
better long-term investment. There is no doubt Cessna will be around for
the long-term; the jury is still out on Eclipse.

--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com

Recently, Mike Rapoport posted:

It sounds great but the price has already risen almost 40% (in
constant dollars) for the initial $840K. I know of more than one
person that put down a deposit and won't be able to pay for the
airplane unless they win the lotto.

On one hand, that's understandable, but wouldn't the reality be that those
people really couldn't afford the plane in the first place? Training and
maintenance can't be inconsequential considerations of the real cost of
ownership.

In this respect, I was also impressed that Eclipse will be returning the
deposits of those who can't qualify to fly the plane.

Neil

Recently, Richard Kaplan posted:

The plane looks great but the cost has risen so much from the
original plan such that it is now "evolutionary" and not
"revolutionary."

Evolved from... what? What other VLJs will be delivered within the next
year?

The ability of the company to provide long-term support is a key
question because an orphaned airplane would lose lots of value.

Ever look at the price of a North American P-51? You could have bought
several of the originals for the price of one today! ;-)

Therefore, I think for anyone considering a VLJ, the Cessna Mustang
is a better long-term investment. There is no doubt Cessna will be
around for the long-term; the jury is still out on Eclipse.

Well, this is a judgement call that would be dependent on many factors,
not the least being how many Mustangs make it to the market compared to
Eclipse 500s. Considering that Cessna and Piper are being outsold by
Cirrus, I don't see a company's history as a very good predictor of their
future success. People will buy the aircraft that they think represents a
better choice for their mission, and since the VLJ market will be at least
in part defined by return on investment, I think that planes costing
several times more to purchase and maintain will have an uphill battle
against the E-500.

Neil

Recently, Jay Honeck posted:

What is your reaction to this plane?

I like the way the on-board computer system is integrated into many
every-day items from the get-go. The engines, avionics, and
environmental systems are all very high-tech, and should be easier to
operate and trouble-shoot than any other jet.

Agreed.

On the other end of the scale, I like the way they've kept things
simple where they could. Using simple mechanical connections for the
control surfaces and landing gear saves $$$ both now, and during
maintenance. Making sure everything is cheaply and easily maintained
is essential to their mission, and it looks like they're going down
the right road.

I also liked the model of redundancy that is being used. It should make
the plane both more reliable and economical to maintain.

That said, it'll never be in my hangar. But I wish them well.

Perhaps not, but it may help to insure that you have places to land your
Pathfinder... ;-)

Neil

("Mike Rapoport" wrote)
It sounds great but the price has already risen almost 40% (in constant
dollars) for the initial $840K. I know of more than one person that put
down a deposit and won't be able to pay for the airplane unless they win
the lotto.


Can they sell their spot in line - thus getting back their deposit and
making a little on the side?

BTW, what were the price guarantees for the early deposit people? I would
think they'd get a price break vs. someone deciding, today, that they want
an Eclipse.


Montblack

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
. ..
Recently, Mike Rapoport posted:

It sounds great but the price has already risen almost 40% (in
constant dollars) for the initial $840K. I know of more than one
person that put down a deposit and won't be able to pay for the
airplane unless they win the lotto.

On one hand, that's understandable, but wouldn't the reality be that those
people really couldn't afford the plane in the first place? Training and
maintenance can't be inconsequential considerations of the real cost of
ownership.

In this respect, I was also impressed that Eclipse will be returning the
deposits of those who can't qualify to fly the plane.

Neil

Let's be honest... Most people buy the most airplane they can reasonbly
afford. That's why you see lots of people flying C-150's, Ercoupes, and the
like. When people decide "Hey, if I do X, Y, and Z, I can afford that new
$840,000 Eclipse.", and the price goes up by $350,000, it is no surprise to
me that the extra up-front cost might run off a few customers. Beyond that,
there are plenty of people who probably saw the Eclipse as a good value (if
that's possible with an airplane) at $840k. Add $350k to the ticket, and
the bang for the buck just took a real hit.

KB