GA headed for regulatory trouble

that would backfire. The response would be to make it bigger and harder
to get into. There has been a grass roots effort by some to try this.
They are nuts. Flying the ADIZ is simple. File, talk, squawk.
Michelle

Jay Honeck wrote:

I was merely agreeing with your suggestion. :-)



Personally, I think it would be excellent to organize a mass protest where
100s of planes all flew toward the ADIZ en masse. (Stopping short of
actually breaking the ADIZ, of course.) It could garner terrific press
coverage, and probably cause great confusion in ATC and the Administration.

Who knows, it might even make the point that the ADIZ is pointless? It
might even result in the ADIZ shrinking, or being eliminated.

My experience with working with pilots, however, indicates that organizing a
protest of this kind would be very difficult. Getting pilots in line is
like herding cats -- it ain't gonna happen easily.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 00:13:48 GMT, Michelle P
wrote in
. net::

Flying the ADIZ is simple. File, talk, squawk.

Oh, you forgot the important part: If you should happen to
accidentally stumble into the DC ADIZ, you are subject to your
government's military hardware intentionally shooting you down in the
name of security.

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Flying the ADIZ is simple. File, talk, squawk.

Oh, you forgot the important part: If you should happen to
accidentally stumble into the DC ADIZ, you are subject to your
government's military hardware intentionally shooting you down in the
name of security.

Exactly how many times has our government's military hardware intentionally
shot down someone penetrating the DC ADIZ?

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

I agree 100%. But are you willing to bet that the casual weekend pilot has
the navigational savvy to ded reckon his way around the ADIZ?

The average recreational pilot should have the navigational savvy to
navigate his way around the ADIZ visually, whether that involves
pilotage or dead reckoning. I've done it, and I'm just an average
recreational pilot. I've made several trips to the ADIZ at 1000 feet
above the treetops, then climbing to 3K for radio reception to get my
squawk, navigating visually the whole way. There are plenty of
landmarks if you plan for them, including highways and power lines.

The plane I flew =did= have a moving map GPS, and it =was= turned on and
set for the moving map, but I did my navigation based on charts and
pilotage. That said, the presence of the moving map made life much
simpler, and though I tried not to "peek", I could easily see how
navigational skills could disappear pretty quickly by relying on the box.

In any case, the violations I've heard of have not been due to lack of
navigational skills, but simply not having the sqawk. That's a
different issue entirely.

Again, if you're going to bet the farm on flying inside of an ADIZ, I think
you're foolish to leave GPS on the ground before you go.

I think it's foolish to stay on the ground because the airplane doesn't
have GPS. It's important to use (and maintain!) all the tools at one's
disposal, and pilotage is one such tool. RELYING on GPS ("don't leave
home without it!") lets pilotage skills erode.

You say you agree with me, but then you say it's foolish to "leave GPS
on the ground". "Foolish" is a pretty strong word, and is incompatible
with agreeing with me 100%.

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Personally, I think it would be excellent to organize a mass protest where
100s of planes all flew toward the ADIZ en masse.

I recall "after a few beers", suggesting something like this.

(Stopping short of actually breaking the ADIZ, of course.)

No, we'd have to bust the ADIZ en masse, and show that nothing happens.

Of course, what would probably happen is that a few of us would be shot
down, the flaming debris would rain down upon innocent children, and
some Al Quida terrorist would use the opportunity to fly in with us.

He wouldn't be one of the ones shot down. But nobody would ever know this.

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

One person's "benign complacency" is another person's "following the rules."

I'd be interested Jay in what you would do if the ADIZ around DC were
eliminated, but another one of equal size were centered around your inn.
Let alone the fact that it's probably not going to happen, that it
wouldn't make sense, or just imagine some scenario in which it might
occur (i.e. that's where our secret nukes are buried).

There would probably be many who would rejoice that DC were finally
opened up to GA traffic, being as DC is a popular destination. Very few
pilots (in fact, very few people) would be affected by a 30 mile ADIZ in
Iowa, so you would likely garner little sympathy, at least from the
likes of those who post like you do.

So, were an ADIZ to pop up around your hotel, what would you hope us
other pilots would do?

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Bob Noel" wrote

no one likes an educated mule

That's why they don't sent them to school !!! g
--
Jim in NC

Jose wrote:
I'd be interested Jay in what you would do if the ADIZ around DC were
eliminated, but another one of equal size were centered around your inn.

GEORGE BUSH IS GOING TO STAY AT THE ASPEN INN???

I think Jay and Mary are going to be too busy to go flying while he his
there, so they won't be concerned about the temporary ADIZ around their inn.

GEORGE BUSH IS GOING TO STAY AT THE ASPEN INN???

I think Jay and Mary are going to be too busy to go flying while he his there, so they won't be concerned about the temporary ADIZ around their inn.

No, he's going to LIVE there. The ADIZ will be as "temporary" as the
one around DC. New rule: he gets to keep his Iowa ADIZ until he dies.

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 21:11:08 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote in
::

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Flying the ADIZ is simple. File, talk, squawk.

Oh, you forgot the important part: If you should happen to
accidentally stumble into the DC ADIZ, you are subject to your
government's military hardware intentionally shooting you down in the
name of security.

Exactly how many times has our government's military hardware intentionally
shot down someone penetrating the DC ADIZ?

The fact that within the short period of time the DC ADIZ has been in
effect there have yet been no shoot downs is not the point.