GA headed for regulatory trouble

Jay Honeck wrote:

Let's see. In the course of the FBI assault, David Koresh has been
shot in the groin, "the bullet blasting a 1-inch wide hole through his
pelvis" yet -- instead of surrendering immediately to the 100 or so FBI
agents that have surrounded his compound -- he's busily "writing his
explanation of the Seven Seals" while stalling a negotiator on the
phone?

He attempted to surrender once, and a Federal sniper put a bullet in the door
frame beside his head. It was obvious they had no intention of taking him alive.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

With the way some folks are pushing GPS you'd get the impression
pilots were wandering aimlessly all over the place before GPS
was even available.

Lack of GPS is not the problem.

Having the ADIZ is the problem.

This is not a constructive attitude, IMHO. Railing against the darkness
helps not...

The Washington, D.C. ADIZ is there, and not moving any time soon. We, as
pilots, had better learn to live with it, and properly navigate through
it -- it's NOT difficult -- or our concept of Free Flight in America will be
jeopardized.

You can pick up a good used GPS for the cost of a SINGLE tank of gas in my
Pathfinder. To use "cost" as an excuse not to use it is goofy.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I would consider flying near the ADIZ without GPS to be simply asking
for trouble, although it is (of course) possible to do so.

To fly in an area where loss of situational awareness can cause
evacuation of the White House (or worse), not using every navigational
tool at our disposal is potentially foolhardy.

Oh, Jay, that's just silly.

If there's GPS in the airplane, sure, turn it on and use it. But if
your rental does -not- have a GPS, then electing not to fly in the DC
area because of this would indicate to me a lack of confidence in one's
flying skills that requires more training, whether to build the skills,
or to build the confidence.

The ADIZ penetrations that made the news have (as far as I know) been
pilots who went in without a code and a clearance, not pilots who went
in with both and got lost. And frankly, it is trivial to bust airspace
with a fully functioning and turned on moving map GPS. All you have to
do is have it zoomed inappropriately (not too hard to do actually) and
rely on the wrong thin green line.

We've
really only got to worry about that pesky 1%, for which we should all
be very thankful.

No, I don't feel that we should be thankful that we are restricted from
flying into what is arguably the most important airspace in the country.
I will be thankful when those restrictions on law abiding citizens
(though not on terrorists) go away, but I do not think I should have to
be thankful that we are getting back freedoms that are rightfully ours.

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jay Honeck wrote:

Well, George, this is now the third (?) time

I think you need to learn to count.

So, let's hear 'em. What made the "nutcases" at Waco and Ruby Ridge so
noble, in your view?

I didn't say anything about nobility, but everything *you* "know" about them has
been provided you by the people who killed them. In the case of Ruby Ridge,
there were adult survivors. After hearing the facts from all sides, Congress
told the head of the FBI to change their procedures immediately and "rethink"
their policies. The survivors were aquitted of the accusation which had been
used to "justify" the assault (I use the term in the military sense) and awarded
substantial monetary damages.

What we have in these two cases were citizens who were brutally attacked and
(mostly) killed by Federal agents and slandered during and after the fact. This
is exactly what would happen to a pilot who was shot down in the ADIZ. By the
time the facts came out (if they ever did), most of the people in the country
would believe that you were a known Al-Quaida agent and that the plane was
certainly carrying half a ton of TNT.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

We, as
pilots, had better learn to live with [the DC ADIZ], and properly navigate through
it -- it's NOT difficult -- or our concept of Free Flight in America will be
jeopardized.

Free Flight in America is already jeopardized. Afraid the restrictions
will come to Iowa? Then rail against the darkness before it covers you!

Jose
--
You may not get what you pay for, but you sure as hell pay for what you get.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 03:49:12 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
YeJxe.126042$xm3.76968@attbi_s21::

Having the ADIZ is the problem.

This is not a constructive attitude, IMHO. Railing against the darkness
helps not...

How does benign complacency help?

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the
name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program
until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how
it
happened." -- Norman Thomas, six-time Socialist Party presidential
candidate
and one of the founders of the ACLU.

Doesn't it embarrass you to propagate such a suspicious-looking quote
without citing any source for it? (For one thing, people don't normally
*announce* a deception that they're hoping will succeed; for another,
liberalism may look socialist to right-wingers, but it doesn't look that way
to liberals or to socialists, so why would it look that way to Thomas?)

--Gary

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:YeJxe.126042$xm3.76968@attbi_s21:

With the way some folks are pushing GPS you'd get the impression
pilots were wandering aimlessly all over the place before GPS
was even available.

Lack of GPS is not the problem.

Having the ADIZ is the problem.

This is not a constructive attitude, IMHO. Railing against the
darkness helps not...

So what do you do everytime some new rule or law or restriction
of any kind comes along that you disagree with? Just put up with
it and say "oh well, just have to learn to live with it"?

"This is not a constructive attitude"

The Washington, D.C. ADIZ is there, and not moving any time soon. We,
as pilots, had better learn to live with it, and properly navigate
through it -- it's NOT difficult -- or our concept of Free Flight in
America will be jeopardized.

No it's not difficult, and you don't NEED a GPS to do it, IF
you are a good pilot. Avoiding the ADIZ is no different than
navigating around any other airspace that one wishes or is
required to avoid. It's just a polygon on a map. There's lot's
of other places besides the DC ADIZ that basically say "Don't go
here."

But that still doesn't mean we should put up with it. Does the
ADIZ do ANYTHING to make DC more secure? I say no. You are free
to disagree.

You can pick up a good used GPS for the cost of a SINGLE tank of gas in
my Pathfinder. To use "cost" as an excuse not to use it is goofy.


Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

In article YeJxe.126042$xm3.76968@attbi_s21,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

With the way some folks are pushing GPS you'd get the impression
pilots were wandering aimlessly all over the place before GPS
was even available.

Lack of GPS is not the problem.

Having the ADIZ is the problem.

This is not a constructive attitude, IMHO. Railing against the darkness
helps not...

acceptance helps protect our freedom even less.

The Washington, D.C. ADIZ is there, and not moving any time soon.

it won't move EVER with that kind of attitude.


We, as
pilots, had better learn to live with it,

wrong

and properly navigate through
it -- it's NOT difficult -- or our concept of Free Flight in America will be
jeopardized.

freedom is in jeopardy now.


You can pick up a good used GPS for the cost of a SINGLE tank of gas in my
Pathfinder. To use "cost" as an excuse not to use it is goofy.

Cost is always a consideration. Folks apparently still don't understand that
GPS is not essential to navigation.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

Jay Honeck wrote:

With the way some folks are pushing GPS you'd get the impression
pilots were wandering aimlessly all over the place before GPS
was even available.

Lack of GPS is not the problem.

Having the ADIZ is the problem.


This is not a constructive attitude, IMHO. Railing against the darkness
helps not...

The Washington, D.C. ADIZ is there, and not moving any time soon. We, as
pilots, had better learn to live with it, and properly navigate through
it -- it's NOT difficult -- or our concept of Free Flight in America will be
jeopardized.

Yes, we shouldn't violate it, but we also shouldn't stop fighting
against it using all available legal means.


Matt