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#111
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 8:25:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Has anyone investigated placing the tow hook directly over(or under) the tow planes center of gravity? This would keep the out of position glider from yanking the tow planes tail out of acceptable limits? The RC tow ships, I have seen, place the tow hook over the towing ships CG. My 2 cents, JJ This is exactly how they do it with Radio control models! I tried towing radio controlled models with a tail hook on a 10' span cub....some success, many crashes....with Hook on top of wing...no problem...and they fly the model gliders really high on the tow plane. Needs some frame around the fin and horizontal stab to prevent rope entanglement....don't think it is safe for "real" towing... Cookie |
#112
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
Over 40 years ago a good friend of mine was killed while Flying a
Citarbria on areotow at Aboyne, Scotland. The findings of the enquiry were that the release as on the floor of the cockpit and could be reached while the inertia seatbelts allowed movement. In turbulence if the belts locked it was not possible for some pilots to reach the release. The glider pilot admitted losing sight of the tug and failed to release. As the result of that accident it was an airworthiness requirement that the glider release was mounted near to the throttle. The requirement that if a glider pilot lost sight of the tug FOR ANY REASON he should immediately release. We will not know the exact causes of the current accident for sometime, speculation can be counter productive, however the two lessons above are still valid. I find it crazy that there are still tugs allowed to fly without the release in close proximity to the throttle and there are still glider pilots who do not release when they should. Surely 40 years is enough time to learn a lesson. |
#113
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
Well, everything's been said but not everyone has said it yet. There is no one answer to this problem, it doesn't matter what "fly the airplane means.." If it's "keep your eyes on the tug and maintain proper position" or "release," what it really means is "do not kill the tow pilot.''
It doesn't matter if you have a reachable release handle, an inverted Schweizer hook, a TOST system or a guillotine, if the glider kites low enough you will be dead or badly injured. A sobering though for tow pilots everywhere. It doesn't matter if the glider pilot is a 15 year old student or an instructor pilot, if they screw up the tow pilot most likely pays the fine. In this most recent accident the glider pilot I am told was an instructor. How can we expect a low time student to react properly if an instructor is distracted? Look at the Front Royal accident, an instructor was flying in this situation and clearly above the tow plane. Why did he not release? There was a fatal tow plane accident at the USAF Academy soaring club, the instructor, an Academy student (the best of the best I was constantly told while I was in the USAF) was significantly above the tow plane and did not release. It doesn't matter if the instructor is a "world aerobatic champion" if he failed to impart information to the student about what to do when one loses sight of the tow plane. Telling someone something and TEACHING someone are two different things. Is it failure to use a check list or a failure of cockpit discipline? It doesn't matter and it won't matter until all involved in the sport including the SSA, the FAA, the NTSB, commercial operation managers, club presidents, ALL the tow pilots and glider pilots decide that it matters and more importantly take action to reduce the chances of it happening again. Unfortunately NOTHING can be done to completely eliminate these occurrences but we fly anyway. Accidents in the aviation world will continue because gravity is a constant and human error is impossible to eliminate completely. Good luck my friends. Walt Connelly Former Tow Pilot Now Happy Helicopter Pilot |
#114
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
It could be effective for one of the glider pilots involved in a kiting fatality to tour the flying sites and share his/her experience and grief personally to glider pilots.
This will probably never happen but it would certainly help others realize the reality of the potential dangers and long lasting effects of a simple mistake. |
#115
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
On Thu, 14 May 2020 18:09:15 -0700, Dirk_PW wrote:
So this confirms for me what I do on every flight is a good course of action (even though it has been a very controversial subject on this site)... That is, I hold the release handle during tow. No, I don't latch my fingers around it and grip it like I'm coming out of a bull riding chute on an angry bull. I do however, have physical contact with it through the first 1000 ft of tow. I grip it with my index finger and middle finger (mimicking a pair of scissors wanting to cut the handle). There is no way to accidentally release in turbulence, but more importantly there is no searching for the handle if I need to get off. The other side benefit is that it prevents me from dealing with stupid distractions in the cockpit since one hand is on the stick, the other is touching the release. Ok, let the negative reactions begin... (I've got my popcorn and beer). I agree. That's what I was taught (for both winch and aero-tow) and that's what I do. I like your reasoning too - fingers on the release means yo have to make a concious decision to let go it it before you grab anything else. I was also taught the 'lock and push up' canopy closing routine from my first training flight, alongside the BGS's standard pre- launch checklist. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#116
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
On Fri, 15 May 2020 13:21:19 +0000, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2020 18:09:15 -0700, Dirk_PW wrote: So this confirms for me what I do on every flight is a good course of action (even though it has been a very controversial subject on this site)... That is, I hold the release handle during tow. No, I don't latch my fingers around it and grip it like I'm coming out of a bull riding chute on an angry bull. I do however, have physical contact with it through the first 1000 ft of tow. I grip it with my index finger and middle finger (mimicking a pair of scissors wanting to cut the handle). There is no way to accidentally release in turbulence, but more importantly there is no searching for the handle if I need to get off. The other side benefit is that it prevents me from dealing with stupid distractions in the cockpit since one hand is on the stick, the other is touching the release. Ok, let the negative reactions begin... (I've got my popcorn and beer). I agree. That's what I was taught (for both winch and aero-tow) and that's what I do. I like your reasoning too - fingers on the release means yo have to make a concious decision to let go it it before you grab anything else. I was also taught the 'lock and push up' canopy closing routine from my first training flight, alongside the BGS's standard pre- launch checklist. s/BGS/BGA/ -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#117
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 9:47:50 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:23:35 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote: The glider was a 1-26. Ramy Too bad. A 1-26 flies fine without a canopy. I have purposefully opened the canopy of a 2-33, unbuckled and stood up to untangle the yaw string, and though flying slower than on tow it wasn't terribly dramatic. Perhaps if training in 2-33s opening the canopy to experience it should be part of the course. It is the surprise and fear of the unknown which certainly contributes to the loss of concentration. An artificial horizon and electric guillotine is a complex solution. Is the tow rope at a sufficient angle in these situations to simply position a sharp knife above the rope such that it cuts itself if the angle is too high? Surely that has been thought of and rejected for good reasons? A common problem most tow plans have is the lack of a good way to see the glider. The mount rearview mirror at some distance from them on the wing struts and various places. Most tow pilots I have taked to say the field of view is very limited and they mostly use them while taking out the slack be fore launch. I todays world we back up cameras on out cars with overlays to help use back up. If we used a camera looking back, the tow pilot could see the glider easily. The screen could have a box the glider must be within. If not cut the rope. Addition software could also be implemented to cut the rope for them. A second idea is a tension sensor. if there is a sustained high pull on the rope as you get with a kiting event. An alarm could go off or the rope automatically cut. Slack rope jerks are very short in duration and could easily be ignored. John Scott was a very good friend of mine and I feel very sad for his loss and at the same time a bit upset at the glider pilot for not doing one of the most fundalmental things we teach students. If you can not see the tow plane " release immediately" people loose sight of the towplane long before things go completely bad. there is addition video taking by the airport cameras that show the entire accident sequence. Some day when the NTSB gives its report, we will get a chance to see this maybe. The tow rope was found 100 yards beyond the towplane in a small pile indicating it came down vertically. The glider over flew the towplane as it was about to crash or even after and caused the plane to flip over. This trapped the pilot inside where he burnt to death. Negative G's could have prevented the pilot from reaching the release under his seat in the most dynamic period of energy transfer to the gliders speed and altitude. IT is this on set of this critical time is when the rope need to be cut. The pull on the Schwiezer tow hook would have been nearly straight down and could have also been jabbed. Years of doing winch launches in a 1-26 and 2-33 say you need to push over to help reduce the release forces to open the release. Tow pilots do the most dangerous part of getting us into the air many times each day. We in the glider do less. We need to find solutions to prevent another kiting fatality. Buzz |
#118
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
Since we have now decided to re-invent the tow plane to put the tow hook on the CG, has anybody considered a canard design with a front or mid fuselage mounted engine?
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#119
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
On Fri, 15 May 2020 11:57:35 -0700, Rakel wrote:
Since we have now decided to re-invent the tow plane to put the tow hook on the CG, has anybody considered a canard design with a front or mid fuselage mounted engine? Difficult: I've flown a Canard free flight model. Its CG was in front of the wing and about 1/3 of the way along the wing:stabiliser gap in front of the wing. The motor was on a short pylon above the CG. Part of the design would be clear: put the pilot on the CG, fins and rudders near the tips and anchor the towline no further back than the wing LE, but where do you put the engine while keeping the propeller away from the towline without making the poor thing far too nose-heavy? Move the pilot back to the wing LE, put the engine immediately in front of him and use a long, light carbon drive shaft to a prop at the front? Maybe a bigger, more powerful Quickie with twin fins would be better? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quickie_Aircraft Or a Transavia Air Truck? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transavia_PL-12_Airtruk OTOH, just get Bert Rutan out of retirement and point him at the problem. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#120
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Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20
Great ideas all around. Install a rear view camera...reinvent the tow plane. Has anyone ever tried to get an A&P to invert the Schweizer hook or extend the release handle so it would be easily reachable? It seemed to me that it required an act of God and an amendment to the Constitution to accomplish something like this. Maybe I was just being put off...
I had to argue for the purchase of a mixture cable for a Pawnee. I guess if you have enough money and are willing to spend it you can accomplish anything. It remains to be seen how quickly the commercial operations will come back after this Chinese Communist Virus has decimated our economy. People might not be willing to take the chance of exposing themselves to others and exponentially increase their chances of becoming ill. Don't expect the commercial operation owners or the club members to make big expenditures under these circumstances. Walt Connelly Former Tow Pilot Now Happy Helicopter Pilot |
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