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100 Hour Inspection Question



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 6th 03, 08:10 PM
FryGuy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 100 Hour Inspection Question

I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time
blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this Saturday.
Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and
are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in
Kill Devil Hills.

I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour
inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between now
and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we
won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection
requirement is not applicable.

I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says:
"Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate
an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no
person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that
person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service
the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....."

The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a
rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the
FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers.

I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want to
violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff Frey
PP-ASEL
  #2  
Old November 6th 03, 08:25 PM
Tarver Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"FryGuy" wrote in message
1...
I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time
blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this

Saturday.
Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and
are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in
Kill Devil Hills.

I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour
inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between

now
and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we
won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection
requirement is not applicable.

I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says:
"Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may

operate
an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no
person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that
person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service
the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....."

The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a
rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the
FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers.


AOPA is correct in that the airplane is for hire, but that is not the
subject of the CFR 14 section. For hire, the operator would get paid for
the flight and that would include any compensation from any
passenger/student.

I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want

to
violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.


How is the flight being paid for?


  #3  
Old November 6th 03, 08:35 PM
Bill Zaleski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Irrelevant question Tarver.

You do not need the inspection for the trip. Only if a flight
instructor, associated with the FBO who operates the bird is aboard
giving flight instruction is it required. You could even use a CFI
from outside the FBO and legally train without the inspection. You
are not operating this for hire. The fact that the FBO rents to you
does not alter the way you are operating the flight.

Bill A&P I.A.



On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:25:44 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"FryGuy" wrote in message
. 41...
I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time
blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this

Saturday.
Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and
are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in
Kill Devil Hills.

I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour
inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between

now
and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we
won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection
requirement is not applicable.

I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says:
"Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may

operate
an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no
person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that
person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service
the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....."

The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a
rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the
FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers.


AOPA is correct in that the airplane is for hire, but that is not the
subject of the CFR 14 section. For hire, the operator would get paid for
the flight and that would include any compensation from any
passenger/student.

I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want

to
violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.


How is the flight being paid for?


  #4  
Old November 6th 03, 08:42 PM
Tarver Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bill Zaleski" wrote in message
news
Irrelevant question Tarver.


My question goes directly to wether the flight is a CFR 14 violation.

You do not need the inspection for the trip. Only if a flight
instructor, associated with the FBO who operates the bird is aboard
giving flight instruction is it required. You could even use a CFI
from outside the FBO and legally train without the inspection. You
are not operating this for hire. The fact that the FBO rents to you
does not alter the way you are operating the flight.


If his friend pays for half the gas and only fryguy flies, he got compensted
for his pilot activity. That is where the line is and I believe that is
what the question is about.

Please cease your top posting.

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:25:44 -0800, "Tarver Engineering"
wrote:


"FryGuy" wrote in message
. 41...
I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had

time
blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this

Saturday.
Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina

and
are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum

in
Kill Devil Hills.

I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour
inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between

now
and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we
won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour

inspection
requirement is not applicable.

I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says:
"Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may

operate
an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and

no
person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that
person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in

service
the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....."

The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is

a
rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at

the
FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers.


AOPA is correct in that the airplane is for hire, but that is not the
subject of the CFR 14 section. For hire, the operator would get paid for
the flight and that would include any compensation from any
passenger/student.

I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't

want
to
violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.


How is the flight being paid for?




  #5  
Old November 6th 03, 08:46 PM
FryGuy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My question goes directly to wether the flight is a CFR 14 violation.

You do not need the inspection for the trip. Only if a flight
instructor, associated with the FBO who operates the bird is aboard
giving flight instruction is it required. You could even use a CFI
from outside the FBO and legally train without the inspection. You
are not operating this for hire. The fact that the FBO rents to you
does not alter the way you are operating the flight.


If his friend pays for half the gas and only fryguy flies, he got
compensted for his pilot activity. That is where the line is and I
believe that is what the question is about.


We will both be flying. The other pilot will be flying up there and I'll
be flying the return trip. We will be splitting the costs though.
  #6  
Old November 6th 03, 09:22 PM
Tarver Engineering
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"FryGuy" wrote in message
3...
My question goes directly to wether the flight is a CFR 14 violation.

You do not need the inspection for the trip. Only if a flight
instructor, associated with the FBO who operates the bird is aboard
giving flight instruction is it required. You could even use a CFI
from outside the FBO and legally train without the inspection. You
are not operating this for hire. The fact that the FBO rents to you
does not alter the way you are operating the flight.


If his friend pays for half the gas and only fryguy flies, he got
compensted for his pilot activity. That is where the line is and I
believe that is what the question is about.


We will both be flying. The other pilot will be flying up there and I'll
be flying the return trip. We will be splitting the costs though.


I think you are safe. Of course, you were probaly safe before, unless you
turned yourself in.


  #7  
Old November 6th 03, 08:28 PM
Ben Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

When I was renting, planes that were over 100 hours were flagged 'no dual'
in the rental signup sheets. (Usually for about a week, whenever they could
fit them into the maintenance schedule).. So I think your agrument is
valid. However, they may have an insurance related issue with renting
planes over the 100 hour inspection time.

--
Ben
C-172 - N13258 @ 87Y




  #8  
Old November 6th 03, 09:07 PM
Jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You just got the exact opposite answer from AOPA than a pilot at our FBO got
less than a month ago.

He called when a plane he had reserved was due for it's 100hr. This was a
current private pilot on a non-training and personal flight. I looked up
the FAR and showed the lineman and advised that in my opinion no 100 hour
was required for this flight but upon return any hours over 100 since the
last inspection would be counted against the following inspection. The
lineman called AOPA and they told him that if no flight instruction was
taking place and if the flight was a not for hire flight, no 100 hour was
needed. The person operating the aircraft (him) was not operating the
aircraft for hire, it was a personal part 91 flight. The lineman then asked
the local DE who runs his own FBO, plane rental, and maintenance shop. The
DE also agrees that as long as it's not a for hire flight, including flight
training, no 100 hour is required.

The FBO does however have the right to stick to it's 100hr policy whether
required or not. Slightly off the subject but interesting is that part of
the FAR that requires 100 hour inspections for airplanes supplied by the
instructor. I've heard arguments in the past that after a pilot meets the
rental requirements of the FBO that the instructor is no longer the supplier
of the airplane and no 100 hour is required.

Another interesting finer point of the FARs to debate. What says the group?
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply


"FryGuy" wrote in message
1...
I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time
blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this

Saturday.
Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and
are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in
Kill Devil Hills.

I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour
inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between

now
and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we
won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection
requirement is not applicable.

I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says:
"Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may

operate
an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no
person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that
person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service
the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....."

The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a
rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the
FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers.

I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want

to
violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff Frey
PP-ASEL



  #9  
Old November 6th 03, 09:07 PM
Ron Natalie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"FryGuy" wrote in message 1...

I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour
inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between now
and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we
won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection
requirement is not applicable.


They are correct, if they aren't carrying passengers for hire, or providing
instruction, they don't need the 100 hour.


The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a
rental plane it is "for hire".


Who ever told you that is an idiot. The reg says "CARRYING PASSENGERS
FOR HIRE." You're A&P is right. Rental is not operating for hire. You don't
need 100 hours, you don't need lifeboats or flares, etc...




  #10  
Old November 6th 03, 09:31 PM
Jim Weir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Find somebody at AOPA that knows what the hell they are talking about. Your A&P
has it dead nuts on.

Jim



FryGuy
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


-
-The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a
-rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the
-FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers.


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com
 




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