Start flying with glider self launch certificate?

Is it harder to get a first pilot certificate for glider - self launch vs. normal powered aircraft near St. Paul, MN? It seems like a self launch glider certificate would be a great way to start because of better stick and rudder skills, lower age requirements (for my son), cheaper operating costs, glider hours apply toward power aircraft requirements, etc but I'm concerned that it might be a bad path because it appears to be rare and hard to find instruction near St. Paul, MN.

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 11:36:57 AM UTC-5, James Stauffer wrote:
...It seems like a self launch glider certificate would be a great way to start
because of better stick and rudder skills, lower age requirements (for my son),
cheaper operating costs, glider hours apply toward power aircraft requirements,
etc...

Nose-dragger touring self-launchers, maybe.
Touring tail-draggers tend to be more difficult tail-draggers.
Pylon machines should not be considered.

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

Many people use Stemmes as touring machines.Â* They're tail draggers but
are one of the most docile handling aircraft of any sort that I've flown
during ground operations.Â* The down sides are the huge turn radius (65
feet) and, of course, the price.

On the positive side, I've flown my Stemme from Moriarty, NM to Minden,
NV at 17,500' MSL achieving 140 kts ground speed each way (very low
winds at altitude), and burning about 3.2 gallons/hour of car gas.Â* AND
it's a two seater, side by side, with 50:1 glide ratio.Â* You can take a
friend or family member, AND it takes only a glider license with self
launch sign off.

It is NOT, however well suited to a new pilot due to its complexity.

On 1/4/2020 9:48 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 11:36:57 AM UTC-5, James Stauffer wrote:
...It seems like a self launch glider certificate would be a great way to start
because of better stick and rudder skills, lower age requirements (for my son),
cheaper operating costs, glider hours apply toward power aircraft requirements,
etc...
Nose-dragger touring self-launchers, maybe.
Touring tail-draggers tend to be more difficult tail-draggers.
Pylon machines should not be considered.

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

--
Dan, 5J

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 9:36:57 AM UTC-7, James Stauffer wrote:
Is it harder to get a first pilot certificate for glider - self launch vs.. normal powered aircraft near St. Paul, MN? It seems like a self launch glider certificate would be a great way to start because of better stick and rudder skills, lower age requirements (for my son), cheaper operating costs, glider hours apply toward power aircraft requirements, etc but I'm concerned that it might be a bad path because it appears to be rare and hard to find instruction near St. Paul, MN.

I would suggest getting a glider rating rather than worrying about self-launch. There are good groups at Faribault, MN, Osceola, WI, and Stanton, MN. Once he has gotten the glider rating it is easy to add a power rating later..

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 11:20:04 AM UTC-6, Tim Taylor wrote:
On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 9:36:57 AM UTC-7, James Stauffer wrote:
Is it harder to get a first pilot certificate for glider - self launch vs. normal powered aircraft near St. Paul, MN? It seems like a self launch glider certificate would be a great way to start because of better stick and rudder skills, lower age requirements (for my son), cheaper operating costs, glider hours apply toward power aircraft requirements, etc but I'm concerned that it might be a bad path because it appears to be rare and hard to find instruction near St. Paul, MN.

I would suggest getting a glider rating rather than worrying about self-launch. There are good groups at Faribault, MN, Osceola, WI, and Stanton, MN.. Once he has gotten the glider rating it is easy to add a power rating later.

My son took 3 lessons from RWSA in Osceola, WI. We were gone 8 hours for 1 hour of flight -- that isn't something I can keep doing because of other responsibilities. I might have to wait until he can drive himself to the airport then. :-/

James - Red Wing and MN Soaring Club (out of Stanton) are both club operations. Cross Country Soaring at Faribault is a commercial operation.

Both have there strengths and weaknesses. If time is critical and you want to show up, have your son fly an hour, then head home, a commercial operation is the way to go.

Full disclosure - I am a very happy member of MSC.

Lou

I will say, I am not real well versed in current US FAA rules.....
Going from a "SEL" cert to any glider, pretty easy. Glider pilots are a lower rung.
As an ex CFIG....prove you can fly a sailplane to me before signoff.....

The issue with initial training in a motor glider is the complexity. There are a lot of system to learn and then to learn how to deal with the failure modes of those systems. It would be kind of like trying to learn how to fly both the towplane and the glider as opposed to just learning to fly one or the other.

Club operations generally are great for low cost at the price of time commitment. The social aspect is also a bit benefit of clubs.

Commercial operations are much better for learning with the least time commitment, but of course cost more.
Many operations are very good at accelerated training where you can stay there for a couple weeks and complete the training. But do your homework and get some recommendations.

A hybrid approach would be to start your son with some power training, which probably is available locally. The Age limit only applies to soloing, not to receiving training. But especially if he got 15-20 hours in a tailwheel airplane (tri-gear would be ok), would get him to where he was about ready to solo and he would develop most of the skills needed to fly a glider. Then spend a week or so at a commercial operation to get his glider rating.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

A hybrid approach would be to start your son with some power training, which probably is available locally. The Age limit only applies to soloing, not to receiving training. But especially if he got 15-20 hours in a tailwheel airplane (tri-gear would be ok), would get him to where he was about ready to solo and he would develop most of the skills needed to fly a glider.

I respectfully disagree. When people ask me the difference in glider vs. power training, I tell them it is like learning to ride a bicycle vs. starting with a motorcycle.

For young people a gliding club is a great place to do some of the
growing they need to do.
Not just flying
Its team work and responsibility and a whole new group to make
friends among.
If he is lucky there will be others of a similar age .
You can't control your Kids life but you can point them in the right
direction.
A gliding club is a good direction to point him.




At 16:12 05 January 2020, Brian wrote:




The issue with initial training in a motor glider is the complexity.
There
=
are a lot of system to learn and then to learn how to deal with the
failure=
modes of those systems. It would be kind of like trying to learn
how to
fl=
y both the towplane and the glider as opposed to just learning to fly
one
o=
r the other.

Club operations generally are great for low cost at the price of time
commi=
tment. The social aspect is also a bit benefit of clubs.

Commercial operations are much better for learning with the least
time
comm=
itment, but of course cost more.
Many operations are very good at accelerated training where you
can stay
th=
ere for a couple weeks and complete the training. But do your
homework and
=
get some recommendations.

A hybrid approach would be to start your son with some power
training,
whic=
h probably is available locally. The Age limit only applies to soloing,
no=
t to receiving training. But especially if he got 15-20 hours in a
tailwhee=
l airplane (tri-gear would be ok), would get him to where he was
about
read=
y to solo and he would develop most of the skills needed to fly a
glider.
T=
hen spend a week or so at a commercial operation to get his glider
rating.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL