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Newbie Qs on stalls and spins



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 16th 04, 03:34 PM
Ramapriya
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Default Newbie Qs on stalls and spins

I've seen that John Denker in his article advocating pilots to keep
practicing recoveries from stalls and spins at a safe altitude...
which prompts me to ask the following:

1. Since I don't think I've experienced a stall or spin before, is it
a nice sensation to experience as a passenger, or wouldn't one be able
to tell?

2. Is it ok for pilots to practice stalls and spins on commercial
passenger aircraft in mid-flight? I ask, since I don't think it's
happened on any flight I've flown so far - unless some pilot did it
without informing the passengers :\

Ramapriya

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  #2  
Old November 16th 04, 04:02 PM
Bushy
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"Ramapriya" wrote in message
m...
I've seen that John Denker in his article advocating pilots to keep
practicing recoveries from stalls and spins at a safe altitude...
which prompts me to ask the following:

1. Since I don't think I've experienced a stall or spin before, is it
a nice sensation to experience as a passenger, or wouldn't one be able
to tell?


You know why they put those bags in the seat pocket of EVERY seat? It's for
the spins!

A stall can be gentle or a rough ride. It can also be the start of a spin.

2. Is it ok for pilots to practice stalls and spins on commercial
passenger aircraft in mid-flight? I ask, since I don't think it's
happened on any flight I've flown so far - unless some pilot did it
without informing the passengers :\


Now I know what all that screaming and yelling coming from the back seats
the last time I went flying was! And why none of the hostees came forward
for a quickie!

Ramapriya


;)
Peter


  #3  
Old November 16th 04, 05:43 PM
Bob Gardner
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Transport category aircraft (what you call commercial) are stalled during
manufacturer's certification tests and that is about it. Jet aircraft are
equipped with warning "stick shakers" that activate when the airplane is
even close to stalling, and "stick pullers" that take the decision out of
the pilot's hands by physically reducing the angle of attack whether the
pilot likes it or not. You will never experience a stall in a "commercial"
aircraft.

Bob Gardner
"Ramapriya" wrote in message
m...
I've seen that John Denker in his article advocating pilots to keep
practicing recoveries from stalls and spins at a safe altitude...
which prompts me to ask the following:

1. Since I don't think I've experienced a stall or spin before, is it
a nice sensation to experience as a passenger, or wouldn't one be able
to tell?

2. Is it ok for pilots to practice stalls and spins on commercial
passenger aircraft in mid-flight? I ask, since I don't think it's
happened on any flight I've flown so far - unless some pilot did it
without informing the passengers :\

Ramapriya



  #4  
Old November 16th 04, 05:57 PM
Bob Gardner
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Sorry...the stick PUSHER reduces the angle of attack...the stick PULLER is
for overspeeds.

Bob Gardner

"Ramapriya" wrote in message
m...
I've seen that John Denker in his article advocating pilots to keep
practicing recoveries from stalls and spins at a safe altitude...
which prompts me to ask the following:

1. Since I don't think I've experienced a stall or spin before, is it
a nice sensation to experience as a passenger, or wouldn't one be able
to tell?

2. Is it ok for pilots to practice stalls and spins on commercial
passenger aircraft in mid-flight? I ask, since I don't think it's
happened on any flight I've flown so far - unless some pilot did it
without informing the passengers :\

Ramapriya



  #5  
Old November 17th 04, 12:56 AM
Andrew Sarangan
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Bob, Is that true for landing also? Do they do full stall landings or do
they fly the airplane into the ground?



"Bob Gardner" wrote in
:

Transport category aircraft (what you call commercial) are stalled
during manufacturer's certification tests and that is about it. Jet
aircraft are equipped with warning "stick shakers" that activate when
the airplane is even close to stalling, and "stick pullers" that take
the decision out of the pilot's hands by physically reducing the angle
of attack whether the pilot likes it or not. You will never experience
a stall in a "commercial" aircraft.

Bob Gardner
"Ramapriya" wrote in message
m...
I've seen that John Denker in his article advocating pilots to keep
practicing recoveries from stalls and spins at a safe altitude...
which prompts me to ask the following:

1. Since I don't think I've experienced a stall or spin before, is it
a nice sensation to experience as a passenger, or wouldn't one be
able to tell?

2. Is it ok for pilots to practice stalls and spins on commercial
passenger aircraft in mid-flight? I ask, since I don't think it's
happened on any flight I've flown so far - unless some pilot did it
without informing the passengers :\

Ramapriya





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  #6  
Old November 17th 04, 01:01 AM
Andrew Sarangan
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Every landing involves a stall. But that is not the same as a stall during
flight because you don't fall more than a few inches. You would not want to
do stalls with passengers in midflight unless you have talked about this
with your passenger. Spins are more dramatic, and I don't think it would be
wise to do them even if you have talked about it with your passenger.
Besides, spins are aerobatic maneuvers and you are required to have
parachutes unless you are doing it as part of a certificate or rating.


(Ramapriya) wrote in news:30a8759c.0411160734.89e24d5
@posting.google.com:

I've seen that John Denker in his article advocating pilots to keep
practicing recoveries from stalls and spins at a safe altitude...
which prompts me to ask the following:

1. Since I don't think I've experienced a stall or spin before, is it
a nice sensation to experience as a passenger, or wouldn't one be able
to tell?

2. Is it ok for pilots to practice stalls and spins on commercial
passenger aircraft in mid-flight? I ask, since I don't think it's
happened on any flight I've flown so far - unless some pilot did it
without informing the passengers :\

Ramapriya



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
  #7  
Old November 17th 04, 01:08 AM
Peter Duniho
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"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
7...
Every landing involves a stall.


No, not every landing does. In fact, preferably few do.

But that is not the same as a stall during
flight because you don't fall more than a few inches.


IMHO, it is generally poor technique to "fall" at all during a landing. One
exception is a short field landing where minimum airspeed is the highest
priority, even if it means a "firm" landing. There may be other exceptions,
but otherwise the landing should be a smooth, controlled descent with the
airplane still flying when the tires touch the pavement and vertical speed
as close to zero as possible.

Pete


  #8  
Old November 17th 04, 01:34 AM
Morgans
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"Ramapriya" wrote

1. Since I don't think I've experienced a stall or spin before, is it
a nice sensation to experience as a passenger, or wouldn't one be able
to tell?


A stall might be felt as very unusual for a passenger, but unless the
passenger knew about flying, he/she might not know *what* happened.

Definitly would know *something* just happened. g

2. Is it ok for pilots to practice stalls and spins on commercial
passenger aircraft in mid-flight?


Commercial flights are in the buisness of getting their customers where they
are going, as comfortably as possible. They do low bank angles, low G's,
and gentle climbs/descents. (except on initial departure, to get high enoug
for reasons of getting the noise away from the people on the ground) Stalls
and spins are not gentle.

I ask, since I don't think it's
happened on any flight I've flown so far - unless some pilot did it
without informing the passengers :\

Ramapriya


Airline pilots do their training for such things, and emergency trainings
(engine out, unusual attitudes, and more) in simulators, and some (or most)
in full motion simulators, that tilt around to give the sensation of these
thing really happening. One reason they do this, is that it is too
expensive to do it in a plane that is empty, and not earning money, plus the
fact that the plane crashing, because the event was not dealt with very
well, would be, well, very bad. :-)
--
Jim in NC


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  #9  
Old November 17th 04, 01:42 AM
Bob Moore
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"Bob Gardner" wrote

Transport category aircraft (what you call commercial) are stalled
during manufacturer's certification tests and that is about it.


Bob, in order to demonstrate my ability as an airline B-707 flight
instructor, the FAA required me to demonstrate instruction in full
stalls. Done lots of them. A little more exciting than a C-172,
but not much. :-) Instruction in "Dutch Roll" recovery with the
yaw damper turned off was much more exciting.

Bob Moore
  #10  
Old November 17th 04, 02:14 AM
Ramapriya
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"Bob Gardner" wrote in message ...
Transport category aircraft (what you call commercial) are stalled during manufacturer's certification tests and that is about it. You will never experience a stall in a "commercial" aircraft.

Bob Gardner


Oh, so the ones that become transport aircraft pilots don't ever get
to practice stall and spin recoveries, then? That'd make me more
jittery before going on a plane the next time...

I do remember reading (on planecrashinfo.com) CVR transcripts of the
final moments of a few plane crashes and recall that a couple of them
stalled prior to crashing. It's quite possible that the stall
condition was reached because of some other earlier error/malfunction
during the crash phase, but could it also be that the stall wasn't
recovered due to a lack of practice??

Ramapriya

 




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