Grob 102 Wanted

Anybody out there got a low time Grob 102 hiding somewhere they would
like to sell?

How about a Speed Astir? Very similar to the 102, but with flaps and
retractable L/G. Excellent XC ship in good condition with good trailer
and towout gear. Decent price. Call Fred or Tony at Soar Minden, 1
800 345 7627. Fred

uncletrees wrote:
Anybody out there got a low time Grob 102 hiding somewhere they would
like to sell?

At 05:12 23 April 2006, Fred wrote:
I'm glad somebody brought this up. I've just gotten
back into soaring after a 15 year hiatus. CFI A&G,
Commercial A&G, 145 flights, all in G103 since I started
back last fall, except for last 3 in 102. I've got
the itch to get my own glider _bad_. I have noticed
a few attractive ads for 104s, seem to be reasonably
equipped, at what seems to be a reasonable price.
Guys in the club say 'Don't do it. All the problems
of flaps but no performance gain. Wait until you find
a deal on a good German glider.' What's the group
concensus?

BTW, I saw a 102 on Wings&Wheels, down on page 4, for
18.5K.

Thanks in advance,
Ed


How about a Speed Astir? Very similar to the 102,
but with flaps and
retractable L/G. Excellent XC ship in good condition
with good trailer
and towout gear. Decent price. Call Fred or Tony
at Soar Minden, 1
800 345 7627. Fred

uncletrees wrote:
Anybody out there got a low time Grob 102 hiding somewhere
they would
like to sell?

The G104 does not seem to have a good reputation. The flaps were
created with a "hinge" being a flexible top surface, very experimental
and the results were not good. Also the 104 is only good for small
pilots. The 102, especially the later G102 Std III version are great
gliders.

As a new (effectively) glider pilot, buy something well known, with
decent perfromance and an easy to rig trailer, and fly alot !

Todd Smith
Grob 102 Std III
3S

Hi Todd,
I am interested to find out more about it
as it relates to the flex seal. I know about the cam mechanics
but I have no Idea how it played out in the past.
The Eppler airfoil was not working as well as one was hoping for
but it got resolve some time ago with turbulator on the top surface.
Maybe that was the problem, the flex seal got a bad wrap due to the glider
not performing a swell as it should have.


Regards
Udo


"toad" wrote in message
oups.com...
The G104 does not seem to have a good reputation. The flaps were
created with a "hinge" being a flexible top surface, very experimental
and the results were not good. Also the 104 is only good for small
pilots. The 102, especially the later G102 Std III version are great
gliders.

As a new (effectively) glider pilot, buy something well known, with
decent perfromance and an easy to rig trailer, and fly alot !

Todd Smith
Grob 102 Std III
3S

Edward Winchester wrote:
At 05:12 23 April 2006, Fred wrote:
I'm glad somebody brought this up. I've just gotten
back into soaring after a 15 year hiatus. CFI A&G,
Commercial A&G, 145 flights, all in G103 since I started
back last fall, except for last 3 in 102. I've got
the itch to get my own glider _bad_. I have noticed
a few attractive ads for 104s, seem to be reasonably
equipped, at what seems to be a reasonable price.
Guys in the club say 'Don't do it. All the problems
of flaps but no performance gain. Wait until you find
a deal on a good German glider.' What's the group
concensus?

WRT "All the problems of flaps but no performance gain," insert here a
dry chuckle. Having owned nothing but flapped gliders since 1975 (after
transitioning from a 1-26, with 200 hours logged time), I'm all ears
regarding flaps' implicit endemic problems. Mine have proved
trouble-free in 2400 hours logged time.

WRT "Wait until you find a deal on a good German glider," I suppose the
comment could be offered/taken in a number of ways.

1) Grobs in general tended to be leave the factory with a lot of
aluminum castings (read: brittle, weak) in their control systems, as
their AD history shows. Poor design choice on the factory's part.
Additionally, Grob gliders in general were/are sneered at from a
craftsmanship perspective by many Germans and Americans. If this is
what your club buddies are referring to, there are elements of truth in
their aspersions. OTOH, Grobs have no history of coming apart in the
air, so looks/emotion more than composite strength/pilot safety would
appear to he the implicit issues behind the aspersions.

2) If the comment reflects unthinking bias FOR "good German glass" and
AGAINST "everything else that isn't," then give it all the respect it
deserves, wich IMHO is darned little.

My advice is know yourself, know your flying skills, define your soaring
mission, and find the least expensive/best-all-around ship/trailer that
will help you meet your personal goals. If you buy a decent used glider
at a fair price, you'll not lose your shirt come sale time. If you buy
a "non mainstream ship" (as have I several times), you'll be selling
into the same non-mainstream pool come sale time, which may make the
glider less economically liquid. Whether that's a problem depends on
your perspective.

Good luck, and have fun!!!

Regards,
Bob Whelan

The problem with the flex seal seems to have been more of a practical
nature than a performance one. I heard a story of somebody's wing
sitting ( for some time I believe) in the delected position and
freezing in that position !

It seems to me just one of those brilliant (in theory) engineering
designs that had a fatal flaw, that it was impossible to implement
well.

Todd

toad wrote:
The problem with the flex seal seems to have been more of a practical
nature than a performance one. I heard a story of somebody's wing
sitting ( for some time I believe) in the delected position and
freezing in that position !

It seems to me just one of those brilliant (in theory) engineering
designs that had a fatal flaw, that it was impossible to implement
well.

Todd


There was a Grob 104 at our field, and the flexible seal seemed to work
well. It was in excellent condition after 27 years.

snip Grobs have no history of coming apart in the air /snip

Didn't a 2-seat Grob have its fuse snap in two on a low inverted pass a
few years ago?

OTOH, Grobs have no history of coming apart in the air,

Hmmm -- true, generally, but at Waikerie, SA, a long time ago, a cast
elevator horn broke on a Grob Twin or 103 during take off and Maurie
Bradney was badly injured in the ensuing release / crash. So your
comment about the weakness of cast control parts is valid.