Gloom

What are they selling that has returned them to profitability?

Apparently the Malibu, Meridian, and Cherokee Six.

I hope the infusion of cash from Honda to build the PiperJet isn't being
called "profit". That would spell the end of the company in a very short
time.

I don't think so. Bass is estimating that the PiperJet will require a
$100 million dollar investment over the next ten years. He also
claims that they can make money selling them from the very first one
-- which, of course, doesn't factor in a return on his investment.

I don't know anymore what to think or do.

Sure, you do. But, denial is a powerful thing. If someone can't spring for
a new $.5M piston single they'll be forced to either buy into a plane with
a very short operative lifetime due to a lack of replacement parts or fold
their tent. I hate to add to the gloom, but the picture has looked bleak
for a couple of years, now. The only hope is that LSA can fill in the gap
between reasonably priced used singles and new planes that are out of
reach for most GA pilots.

I agree, although the cost of LSAs is certainly no bargan. You can
buy a VERY nice Cherokee 140 for half of what the cheapest LSA is
going for nowadays.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

But it's just SO
frustrating to see the skies over Iowa City slowly becoming empty
thanks to people in the industry who simply don't understand that
without an active, proactive interest in flight training EVERYTHING
stops in about ten years.

Ever think of starting an FBO? You've got your motel going, why not
attach an FBO to it and devote more of your time to aviation?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jay Honeck wrote:

Then things went downhill.

Not to start a Cessna vs. Piper debate(!), but I have to contrast your report on Piper's strategy with the
reports from the Cessna Pilots Association fly-in held in Wichita a few weeks ago. I wasn't there
personally, so this is just second-hand, but the reports have been very positive, with Cessna hosting
factory tours, demonstrations, and seminars, both at Wichita and at their single engine manufacturing
facility in Independence. There was also lots of positive buzz about their LSA and NGP prototypes and
business plans. So, is Piper's strategy really indicative of the industry as a whole, or just one company's
direction?

Mike

"Jose" wrote in message
et...
But it's just SO
frustrating to see the skies over Iowa City slowly becoming empty
thanks to people in the industry who simply don't understand that
without an active, proactive interest in flight training EVERYTHING
stops in about ten years.

Ever think of starting an FBO? You've got your motel going, why not
attach an FBO to it and devote more of your time to aviation?

Jose
--

You could even ask about a "through the fence agreement."

Stranger things have happened.

Peter

On 2007-06-17 22:10:31 -0400, Helen said:

Jay, it's not technically a Piper, but you ought to check out the new
SportCruiser we rent and sell:

http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com/sales.htm
http://www.chesapeakesportpilot.com/

This plane is what Piper would have come up with if they had entered
the light sport market. It is seriously roomy, fast, quiet, and burns
just 3gph with Piper handing and custom panel. We're renting it at
$85/h factory new.

IMHO, Piper is foolish for not going into this market. We've had our
school open for just under two months and are picking up students from
4 states at a rate of a half dozen a week. We are struggling to add
planes and instructors fast enough to keep up with the demand. We've
had the SportCruiser for a matter of weeks and already it is booking up
solid.

Piper's future in piston GA may be doomed, but certainly GA itself.
The LSA market will see to that.

Helen


You are absolutely correct in my opinion. It's aircraft like this that
will save General Aviation if indeed, after the lawyers, and the
government have finished with it, there is anything left of General
Aviation to be saved.
These airplanes are marvels of design and engineering. They have
entered the market at exactly the right time. Now, if the lawyers can
only keep their greedy hands out of the pockets of the manufacturers
causing that 85 an hour to go to 185 an hour to cover fear of
litigation costs, GA just might have a chance.
Dudley Henriques

Recently, Jay Honeck posted:
[...]
In his speech, Mr. Bass touted the fact that Piper had gone back to
its original name (no more "New Piper" nonsense), had returned to
profitability, and recovered from the three hurricanes that had
devastated their Vero Beach facilities. All good things, indeed, and
each announcement was met with enthusiastic applause.

What are they selling that has returned them to profitability?

[...]
Then Bass went on to spend half an hour trumpeting the new PiperJet,
which has supposedly already racked up 180 firm orders. With a whiz-
bang PowerPoint presentation, he went on to outline the features of
this $2+ million jet to a room full of Cherokee pilots -- all of whom
only wanted to hear about piston singles.

I hope the infusion of cash from Honda to build the PiperJet isn't being
called "profit". That would spell the end of the company in a very short
time.

[...]
God almighty, folks, as if the writing wasn't on the wall enough, this
fly-in has proved to me that our beloved GA is teetering at the abyss.
I looked around the ballroom, at all these gray-haired old guys
wearing brightly-colored, aviation themed Hawaiian shirts, and
realized that I was possibly witnessing the end of an era. Between
"User Fees" on one side, fuel costs on the other, and an aging pilot
community, I don't know anymore what to think or do.

Sure, you do. But, denial is a powerful thing. If someone can't spring for
a new $.5M piston single they'll be forced to either buy into a plane with
a very short operative lifetime due to a lack of replacement parts or fold
their tent. I hate to add to the gloom, but the picture has looked bleak
for a couple of years, now. The only hope is that LSA can fill in the gap
between reasonably priced used singles and new planes that are out of
reach for most GA pilots.

Neil

Not to start a Cessna vs. Piper debate(!), but I have to contrast your report on Piper's strategy with the
reports from the Cessna Pilots Association fly-in held in Wichita a few weeks ago. I wasn't there
personally, so this is just second-hand, but the reports have been very positive, with Cessna hosting
factory tours, demonstrations, and seminars, both at Wichita and at their single engine manufacturing
facility in Independence. There was also lots of positive buzz about their LSA and NGP prototypes and
business plans. So, is Piper's strategy really indicative of the industry as a whole, or just one company's
direction?

Oh, there's no doubt that Cessna is in GA for the long haul -- but
they *already have* their jet(s). They probably make more profit on
a single Citation than on ten (or more?) Skyhawks, and that's what
Piper is aiming at.

Difference is (as has been the case since the 1940s), Piper is way
behind the marketing curve. They needed to have a light jet 25 years
ago.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Jun 18, 1:06 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
He then drove the stake in further by stating unequivocably that Piper
would NOT be entering the Light Sport market, thus confirming (to most
attendees) that Piper was on the verge of completely abandoning their
piston single line.

Seems to me that Piper is Piper in name only, it's a brand with
recognition and that's what the company is going to trade on. By
showing distinct disinterest in the LSA market they have, whether they
wanted to or not, basically written themselves out of piston single
GA.

LSA (and the equivalents in other countries) is, without any shadow of
a doubt, the way that GA for recreational flyers (and flying school
fleets) is going, any company that doesn't see that is going to be
left behind.

10 years from now, I expect that the large majority of recreational
and student pilots will behind the stick of an LSA, traditional GA
isn't going to be cost effective for too much longer.

Hey Jay...

Its really striking to read this after I just got back from watching
the sun set 2000 feet over Point Reyes (the Western-Most point in
California).

I Bought my bird/passed my check ride at 24, I'm now 25. Being a
pilot in my generation (The "boomerang generation"... how's that for a
distinction) has been a weird experience. Let me put it this way -
when I told my highschool friends that I had just purchased an
aircraft, the reaction I received was... well, frankly, about akin to
that I would I have expected if I had told them I had just been
selected as an astronaut. Its not that they didn't respect it. It
was just that, for this generation, so sheltered by parents who never
wished for them to feel rough ground on their feet, the concept of any
one of their peers taking on a roll with so much risk and
responsibility attached was _literally_ beyond their capacity to
comprehend. "You WHAT?!" "Isn't that dangerous?" "Don't you get
scared?" "That's so cool... I wish I could do that..." The response
ranges from horror to disbelief to jealousy... the only attitude sadly
missing is "cool, how can I get into that?" The idea that flying an
aircraft is an option available to them simply does not exist.

I don't know whether the issue is bad publicity on the part of GA, or
whether it's just a testament to the pathetic nature of my
generation. I'm betting on the latter.

But either way... I mourn it.

The Piper CEO's words bother, but do not surprise me. It's right
along the same lines as my generation's sentiments- that the future of
aviation (and hence the money) lies with the privilidged few. That
the concept that the every day man who possesses the passion and
desire can fly and should be supported in doing so is being lost.
Every day the dream of flight moves further towards that available
only towards the privileged upper echelon.

The young blood is out there... I know many of them... but not nearly
enough. I just wish I knew what I could do about it.

I wish I knew that there was something I could do about it.

But in the end all I can say is screw it. Screw my generation, screw
the affluence-chasing new CEO piper... In the end all that matters is
that I can go watch the sun set from 2000 feet over the Pacific Ocean
on a whim...

And wow, it was beautiful.

-Scott

Jay Honeck writes:

He went on to state that Piper would no longer be able to provide
parts support for "ancient" aircraft, and tossed out a "maximum" age
of 25 years. Of course, the room was packed with people flying planes
that were, on average, 30 years old -- so the room became silent at
this quasi-announcement. (No one is quite sure if he was really
"announcing" this change, or if he was just floating the idea...)

Quite surprising, given that the average age of small GA aircraft is above 30
these days (around 35, I think).

Get out there and FLY, people!

On whose dime?