Runway yes or no [UPDATE]

Kevin wrote:

The decision to approve or deny a private runway (in Idaho) is based
on the planning and zoning committee. This is amazing to me that a
group of regular folks who know nothing of what it takes for an
airplane to take off or land AND ALSO, the planning and zoning
committee will not accept any responsibility or liability if their
decision was wrong and planes crash.

It sounds as if the Planning commission is strictly ruling on the
principle of whether they want a runway in their community or not, and
are not ruling on the safety aspects. They are leaving the safety
aspects up to the person designing the runway. Seems perfectly
reasonable.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:36:03 -0500 (EST), "Kevin"
wrote:

The decision to approve or deny a private runway (in Idaho) is based
on the planning and zoning committee. This is amazing to me that a
group of regular folks who know nothing of what it takes for an
airplane to take off or land AND ALSO, the planning and zoning
committee will not accept any responsibility or liability if their
decision was wrong and planes crash.

My opinion:

If you are putting up a private runway, it should be your business. The
planning and zoning board gets involved only because they are involved with
any kind of land use within your community.

If you want to open your runway to the public, then *you* (not the planning
board) have, and should have, the responsibility that it be safe for its
intended purpose.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

The runway/property owner also bears the liability responsibility.

Kevin wrote:
[snip]
FAA - The FAA has no interest in approving or denying a private runway
on private land outside city limits or maybe even inside city limits.

(In the state of Idaho) the Dept. of Transportation has an aeronautics
division. That department has guidlines on runway construction which
is 2000 feet length plus one third of the elevation. The Dept. of
Transportation also insists they do not approve or deny a private
runway on private land. In addition, they say a person can make a
runway any length they want and their dept. will not oppose it in any
way.

The decision to approve or deny a private runway (in Idaho) is based
on the planning and zoning committee. This is amazing to me that a
group of regular folks who know nothing of what it takes for an
airplane to take off or land AND ALSO, the planning and zoning
committee will not accept any responsibility or liability if their
decision was wrong and planes crash.
[snip]

You just said the Department of Transportation sets the runway guidelines.

-Agent1

James Robinson wrote in message ...
Kevin wrote:

The decision to approve or deny a private runway (in Idaho) is based
on the planning and zoning committee. This is amazing to me that a
group of regular folks who know nothing of what it takes for an
airplane to take off or land AND ALSO, the planning and zoning
committee will not accept any responsibility or liability if their
decision was wrong and planes crash.

It sounds as if the Planning commission is strictly ruling on the
principle of whether they want a runway in their community or not, and
are not ruling on the safety aspects. They are leaving the safety
aspects up to the person designing the runway. Seems perfectly
reasonable.


SLightly off topic. In private airstrip law does the air over the
adjcent farmers corn field belong to the airstrip? Meaning is there an
air easement concept that would prevent the building to appear to
close the airport?

I have a feeling that the corn field used for the approach is like
trees maybe. The airstrip will close when the area builds up?

Douglas Eagleson
Gaithersburg, MD USA

In private airstrip law does the air over the
adjcent farmers corn field belong to the airstrip? Meaning is there an
air easement concept that would prevent the building to appear to
close the airport?

Evidently the rule that you can't block access to a runway applies
only to public-use airports. The guy with a runway on his own
property, for his own use, had better make sure he can clear any
obstacle the neighbors might reasonably construct (or allow to grow).

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:36:03 -0500 (EST), "Kevin"
wrote:

I started a message thread a month or two ago asking for information
whether a person is allowed to build a runway. I think one or two
users may have stated the answer but at the time it didn't seem
realistic. Here is what I found out:

FAA - The FAA has no interest in approving or denying a private runway
on private land outside city limits or maybe even inside city limits.

If it's "Private" they do not care and have no jurisdiction as far as
the runway is concerned. They do have jurisdiction over the aircraft
that might use it though. They do not say who or what may use the
airport.

(In the state of Idaho) the Dept. of Transportation has an aeronautics
division. That department has guidlines on runway construction which
is 2000 feet length plus one third of the elevation. The Dept. of
Transportation also insists they do not approve or deny a private
runway on private land. In addition, they say a person can make a
runway any length they want and their dept. will not oppose it in any
way.

As others have said, the key is private. The runway is not open to
public use.


The decision to approve or deny a private runway (in Idaho) is based
on the planning and zoning committee. This is amazing to me that a

it's pretty much the same in Michigan.

group of regular folks who know nothing of what it takes for an
airplane to take off or land AND ALSO, the planning and zoning
committee will not accept any responsibility or liability if their
decision was wrong and planes crash.

Their decision has nothing to do with how the runway is used.
A farmer can set aside a strip of hay field, keep it mowed and call it
a runway.


When I talked to the FAA it was interesting they did tell me there is
nothing to stop me from putting a tall antenna tower on the edge of my
property. Ofcourse that is not the answer and would only contribute to
the hazards.

And... they may not be correct. It depends on the zoning. Here we
have set back rules meaning I may not put up anything tall enough to
fall on my neighbors. OTOH I can go to 80 feet with no engineering or
permit required.

Speaking of antennas and towers. If you take off from the old
Houghton Lake airport (The one on the SW corner of the lake, not HTL)
there is a very tall tower right off the end of the runway preventing
either a straight in or straight out. You have to go around the thing
when coming in, or going out to the NW.


After Planning and zoning make their decision it does go to the
commissioner. And if a person wanted to feed lawyers I guess they
would be your friend til your money's end and make it look like they
were on your side.


Unless your neighbor decides to run a crop dusting operation it's
doubtful you'll hear much out of him any way. Course I guess he might
be able to afford a DC-3 and go camping. It's a great short field
plane, but the operating costs are tad steep for most of us and you
probably would hear him taking off over your place.

Last fall I followed a friend home. He has a farm on the south side of
a town about 25 miles from here. He has been using the strip
regularly, but it is private although maintained year round. He just
doesn't have the equipment to keep it free of snow all the time in the
winter.

The local FBO bout went out of his tree when I told him about landing
there. He thought that was terrible. I told him that other than a
bit bumpy it was a good strip. At that point he took off about
insurance and safety and.... He couldn't understand me taking the
equivalent of an old Bonanza into a short, sod strip. (I didn't need
a third of it.) The Bo makes a good short field plane, it just
doesn't handle large bumps well.

What dictates the airplanes that can use a strip are the laws of
physics. If he has a 2000 foot sod strip there are only certain
planes that can safely use the strip and of those some will depend on
the pilot's skill. The insurance companies will also limit whether
planes insured through them will be covered when landing there.
Contrary to what seems to be a general belief among the public (non
pilots), most pilots shy away from any strip that isn't at least two
to three times longer than needed to easily land and take off.

My insurance says only that the strip be maintained year round and
used regularly.

The main point is you are not talking about an airport and in
particular you are not talking about a public airport. You are
talking about some one using their land for their airplane. (and maybe
a few friends) The FAA cares only that he fly in a safe manner, not
whether he lands on a 1500 foot sod strip, his back yard, a hay field,
or a 10,000 foot paved strip. The township (parish), County, and
state may, or may not have rules regarding a person using a strip of
land for a runway. If they do not have specific restrictions there is
probably nothing to stop the person for using however much land they
want for a runway and they can take it right up to the fence line.

If I had enough room out here in the county I could easily put in my
own strip. Actually there is one less than two miles from me and I
know he uses it, but I've never seen it in use.

We used to have a strip kept mowed short in one of our fields within
the village limits of Breckenridge (MI). I used to land over there
quite often (in days gone by). There was another pilot who lived 7 or
8 miles south. He'd fly over and then walk into town.

I'm surprised that he even has to ask the county or township unless
they have a specific ordinance.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com