Question about training costs

I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00

I've heard anywhere from $5-8000.00 for the private pilot license.
Is that just for the calculated hours, without adding in ground
school? The wet rate is $106/hr & flight instructor is $39/hr. (Damn
Oil Prices)

If I go the commercial route
Private Pilot $10,600
Instrument Rating $14,200
Multi-Engine & Single Engine Commercial Pilot Certificates $14,300
Airline Crew Orientation Program $2,800
Flight Instructor Certs (MEI, CFII & CFI) $11,800

332 Total Flight & Simulator Hours
47 Total Multi-Engine Hours

$53,700 Total

Just thought I'd check before making the investment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :-)

it's nice that they break it out..
do the math and it adds up to over $10K,
40hrs dual @$106 + $39 = 5800
10hrs solo @106 = 1060
24hrs pre/post mission briefs @39/hr = $936
60hrs of ground school at $39/hr for the instructor, that is a $2340 ground
school ONE ON ONE course, most can be found for 600-800, with more than one
student in the class.
Plus 2hr for the check ride @$106 = 212

They must be throwing in the MultiMedia instruction kit with the $2340
ground school, and I'd be betting that it is not one on one instruction for
60hrs.

compare prices at www.westairaviation.com Las Vegas NV (VGT),
select Training, then Part 61 course.
Total is $4525 for 40hrs in a C-172 ($3400), 20 dual 20 solo, 20 dual
instruction hours ($800), FAA Medical ($85), FAA Written Test ($90), FAA
flight check exam fee ($325), books, headset, etc est at $400 cost, Ground
School $325

BT

"Tolwyn" wrote in message
...
I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00

I've heard anywhere from $5-8000.00 for the private pilot license.
Is that just for the calculated hours, without adding in ground
school? The wet rate is $106/hr & flight instructor is $39/hr. (Damn
Oil Prices)

If I go the commercial route
Private Pilot $10,600
Instrument Rating $14,200
Multi-Engine & Single Engine Commercial Pilot Certificates $14,300
Airline Crew Orientation Program $2,800
Flight Instructor Certs (MEI, CFII & CFI) $11,800

332 Total Flight & Simulator Hours
47 Total Multi-Engine Hours

$53,700 Total

Just thought I'd check before making the investment.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :-)

Tolwyn wrote:
I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00


Good God! That price is aimed at the most ham-fisted inept students. I got my
private license in 44 hours. I might have gotten it in a little less but I had
4 instructors before I settled in with one. Here's what it would run today at
my local FBO if I were to do it over:

Aircraft Rental 44 X $85 = 3740
Dual Instruction 22 X $35 = 770
Ground School 0
Books, etc 150
Checkride, misc crap 340
Total $5000

You don't need a ground school. You can study at home for free.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Tolwyn wrote:
I'm looking into Westwind Aviation in Phoenix
http://www.flywsa.com/

But I wanted to know what everyone thinks of these prices.
Private Pilot Course
8 Weeks long
Ground School (60 hrs)
40 Hours Dual Instruction in Cessna 172R/S
10 Hours Solo 172R/S
1 Multimedia instruction kit
Preflight/Postflight Briefing (24 hrs)
2 Hours 172R/S FAA Private Checkride

$10,600.00

60 hours of *ground instruction* for private pilot? Wow.

The flight school I worked at, also in Arizona, quoted *approximately*
$8,000 for private pilot, based on approximately 50 hours -- $105/hr for
172SP (that rate has gone up since then) + $45/hr for CFI, give or take
for some ground instruction (no airplane rental) and some solo time (no
instructor), plus Cessna Private Pilot Kit ($300), written exam ($80),
other pilot supplies, stage checks and checkride.

Of course, the actual costs/hours vary from person to person. Some
people spend more time studying at home than others, and some learn
faster in the airplane than others.

Some people find a group ground-school course advantageous, others
prefer to study at home alone. Another school in Arizona had a ground
school course that was $200 for 6 weeks, meeting 2 nights/week for 2-3
hours. Between each class, students were to read two chapters in the
Jeppesen Private Pilot book. There were 12 people per class, and at the
end, most were ready to take their written exam. The good thing was that
everyone benefitted from the discussions resulting from everyone's
questions. Again, just depends what you prefer or need (group vs.
one-on-one).

Good God! That price is aimed at the most ham-fisted inept students. I got my
private license in 44 hours.

I don't think it's a good idea to be giving people the impression that
the private can be easily done in 40 hours. A lot of people do finish
in 40 hours, but most people don't. An unrealistic expectation of
finishing in 40 hours can lead to frustration. I took about 80 hours to
finish and I wouldn't consider myself inept or ham-fisted (whatever
that's supposed to mean).

- Ray

Ray wrote:
Good God! That price is aimed at the most ham-fisted inept students. I got
my private license in 44 hours.

I don't think it's a good idea to be giving people the impression that
the private can be easily done in 40 hours. A lot of people do finish
in 40 hours, but most people don't. An unrealistic expectation of
finishing in 40 hours can lead to frustration. I took about 80 hours to
finish and I wouldn't consider myself inept or ham-fisted (whatever
that's supposed to mean).


I don't know how long the private pilot program takes most people; I only know
what it took me. I was at a Cessna Flight Center and followed their flight
curriculum. Heh heh... it cost me less than $1100, too. Of course at the time
you could buy a very nice car for $6000 or so.

80 hours is a hell of a long time. If I had to guess, I'd say you dragged it
out over too long a period, calendar wise. I flew every other day until I was
finished. I figure that gave me time enough to digest what I was shown but not
so long that I would forget things. If you drag things out excessively, you
waste a tremendous amount of time recovering old material.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

80 hours is a hell of a long time. If I had to guess, I'd say you dragged it
out over too long a period, calendar wise.

I flew twice a week and towards the end three times a week. The average
at my club seems to be about 70 hours and I've never heard of anyone at
my home airport who's finished in under 60. I've also heard
unsubstantiated reports that the national average (in the US) is about
60 hours now. I know I took longer than a lot of people, but that's
what it took for me to feel absolutely comfortable with my abilities. I
probably could have passed the checkride earlier, but I wanted to be
over prepared.

My point is that if a student starts training with the expectation that
it will take only 40 hours, he or she is likely to get frustrated
(possibly to the point of quitting) if it ends up taking a lot longer.
Also, if the student only budgets for 40 hours of flying, money could
become a factor towards the end of the training and that's never a good
thing.

- Ray

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote:
80 hours is a hell of a long time. If I had to guess, I'd say you dragged it
out over too long a period, calendar wise. I flew every other day until I
was finished.

Having worked at a flight school, 80 hours is *not* uncommon or unusual;
40 hours is possible, but is *not* the norm (at least not at our school,
and it too was a Cessna Pilot Center, using their cirriculum). I don't
know what your situation was when you did your training, but most of our
customers flew twice/week except when nearing their checkrides.

Some students would take a couple of weeks off for family vacations, or
for the holidays, or for other personal priorities, and that always
requires some extra time for review when they return, but 80 hours
wasn't unusual at all.

Local flight school does complete Students in 40-45 hours.
They have to in order to keep the Air Force FIT contract.
If they can't follow the syllabus and the student cannot complete in 45
hours, the student is not qualified for Air Force pilot training.

They do get the ham fisted, or those that fly less than once per week
average.. that take 65-80 hours.

BT
completed in 42.. I wasted a couple of solo hours..
but that was over 30yrs ago when the C-150 was $18/hr WET


"Ray" wrote in message
...
80 hours is a hell of a long time. If I had to guess, I'd say you
dragged it out over too long a period, calendar wise.

I flew twice a week and towards the end three times a week. The average
at my club seems to be about 70 hours and I've never heard of anyone at my
home airport who's finished in under 60. I've also heard unsubstantiated
reports that the national average (in the US) is about 60 hours now. I
know I took longer than a lot of people, but that's what it took for me to
feel absolutely comfortable with my abilities. I probably could have
passed the checkride earlier, but I wanted to be over prepared.

My point is that if a student starts training with the expectation that it
will take only 40 hours, he or she is likely to get frustrated (possibly
to the point of quitting) if it ends up taking a lot longer. Also, if the
student only budgets for 40 hours of flying, money could become a factor
towards the end of the training and that's never a good thing.

- Ray