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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
Didn't make it to a new thread on the first attempt...
----------------------------------------- I moved this to a new thread, as it seemed to go in a different direction than Bob's original conversation starter. ----------------------------------------- Guy Acheson wrote on 4/9/2021 8:51 PM: There is no way to compare a pilot with an engine to a pilot without an engine. We (you excepted, of course) do it all the time - easy peasy. Completely different world view. Not the ones I know, and after 26 seasons with a motorglider, I know a LOT of motorglider pilots. Completely different set of choices regarding difficult weather. See above. Not on the same planet. All the motorglider pilots I know started in unpowered gliders, then after many years, switched to motorgliders, which they then flew mostly like they did before. Having a motor can encourage taking more risks with the weather with some pilots, but not the "off the charts" extent you seem to think. You can sometimes see similar behavior in an unpowered pilot that has a great crew eager to do a retrieve. Henry Combs was the epitome of this behavior, more adventurous than almost any other pilot (motorized or not) I've known, but there were/are number of them in the Crystal Squadron following in his wing wake, and all without motors. My view is most motorglider pilots don't take much advantage of the exploring that is more available to motorglider pilots; that is, they continue to fly like they did when they were "purists", and are just happy to have a launch when desired, and getting home in time for dinner. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 |
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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 6:22:43 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Didn't make it to a new thread on the first attempt... ----------------------------------------- I moved this to a new thread, as it seemed to go in a different direction than Bob's original conversation starter. ----------------------------------------- Guy Acheson wrote on 4/9/2021 8:51 PM: There is no way to compare a pilot with an engine to a pilot without an engine. We (you excepted, of course) do it all the time - easy peasy. Completely different world view. Not the ones I know, and after 26 seasons with a motorglider, I know a LOT of motorglider pilots. Completely different set of choices regarding difficult weather. See above. Not on the same planet. All the motorglider pilots I know started in unpowered gliders, then after many years, switched to motorgliders, which they then flew mostly like they did before. Having a motor can encourage taking more risks with the weather with some pilots, but not the "off the charts" extent you seem to think. You can sometimes see similar behavior in an unpowered pilot that has a great crew eager to do a retrieve. Henry Combs was the epitome of this behavior, more adventurous than almost any other pilot (motorized or not) I've known, but there were/are number of them in the Crystal Squadron following in his wing wake, and all without motors. My view is most motorglider pilots don't take much advantage of the exploring that is more available to motorglider pilots; that is, they continue to fly like they did when they were "purists", and are just happy to have a launch when desired, and getting home in time for dinner. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari. |
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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
wrote on 4/10/2021 4:22 PM:
On Saturday, April 10, 2021 at 6:22:43 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote: Didn't make it to a new thread on the first attempt... ----------------------------------------- I moved this to a new thread, as it seemed to go in a different direction than Bob's original conversation starter. ----------------------------------------- Guy Acheson wrote on 4/9/2021 8:51 PM: There is no way to compare a pilot with an engine to a pilot without an engine. We (you excepted, of course) do it all the time - easy peasy. Completely different world view. Not the ones I know, and after 26 seasons with a motorglider, I know a LOT of motorglider pilots. Completely different set of choices regarding difficult weather. See above. Not on the same planet. All the motorglider pilots I know started in unpowered gliders, then after many years, switched to motorgliders, which they then flew mostly like they did before. Having a motor can encourage taking more risks with the weather with some pilots, but not the "off the charts" extent you seem to think. You can sometimes see similar behavior in an unpowered pilot that has a great crew eager to do a retrieve. Henry Combs was the epitome of this behavior, more adventurous than almost any other pilot (motorized or not) I've known, but there were/are number of them in the Crystal Squadron following in his wing wake, and all without motors. My view is most motorglider pilots don't take much advantage of the exploring that is more available to motorglider pilots; that is, they continue to fly like they did when they were "purists", and are just happy to have a launch when desired, and getting home in time for dinner. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari. Don't read too much into the Pluto part: I just wanted some alliteration - Pluto/Purist, Mars/Motorglider. :^) -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 |
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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
Eric Greenwell wrote on 4/10/2021 8:32 PM:
I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari. Don't read too much into the Pluto part: I just wanted some alliteration - Pluto/Purist, Mars/Motorglider.* :^) I suggest "Kuiper Kamp" to keep the alliteration going. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 |
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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 12:10:18 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote on 4/10/2021 8:32 PM: I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari. Don't read too much into the Pluto part: I just wanted some alliteration - Pluto/Purist, Mars/Motorglider. :^) I suggest "Kuiper Kamp" to keep the alliteration going. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 Do I think that having or not having an engine is a predictor of piloting skills or testosterone levels? No, absolutely not. Do I think that having an engine provides a significant advantage in scoring OLC points? Absolutely, Yes. I have nothing against motor gliders, particularly the self launching variety,(I would like to own one except for the expense) but you have to admit that the sustainers have only one purpose and that is to save a flight that would otherwise end in landing out. How can anyone deny that this is a huge psychological advantage on the average OLC flight where there is nothing at stake but bragging rights. Bottom line, motor gliders should compete against motor gliders on OLC. |
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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
BobWa43 wrote on 4/11/2021 5:19 AM:
On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 12:10:18 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote: Eric Greenwell wrote on 4/10/2021 8:32 PM: I guess being in the Kuiper belt is not that bad. I guess us purist have a distinct habit of staying away from home. I guess next year we will name or gathering the Kuiper Safari. Don't read too much into the Pluto part: I just wanted some alliteration - Pluto/Purist, Mars/Motorglider. :^) I suggest "Kuiper Kamp" to keep the alliteration going. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 Do I think that having or not having an engine is a predictor of piloting skills or testosterone levels? No, absolutely not. Do I think that having an engine provides a significant advantage in scoring OLC points? Absolutely, Yes. I have nothing against motor gliders, particularly the self launching variety,(I would like to own one except for the expense) but you have to admit that the sustainers have only one purpose and that is to save a flight that would otherwise end in landing out. How can anyone deny that this is a huge psychological advantage on the average OLC flight where there is nothing at stake but bragging rights. Bottom line, motor gliders should compete against motor gliders on OLC. I had flown 2000 hours in unpowered sailplanes when I switched to a motorglider, and I did not feel I had a huge psychological advantage. And when I fly at the Parowan motorglider event each year, somehow my "huge psychological advantage" isn't enough to keep pilots like Rami Yanetz and Thorsten Streple from clobbering me on the OLC! There is some advantage, but it's not huge, or even big. So, of all the factors that go into an OLC score, why do you focus only on the motor? The place has a much larger effect, I think. Who has the greater advantage: the sustainer pilot launching from Seminole lake, or the pilot launching from Ridge Soaring on a good ridge day? Or a pilot in South Africa? -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 |
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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
The argument that "purists" are better than "motorgliderists" is an argument used by miserable old men who try to assert that flying "pure" gliders is more difficult that flying motorised gliders in order to discourage the next generation from adopting emerging technologies.
They do this because they themselves own a "pure" (unmotorised) glider and they don't want their large investment to reduce to $0 as people move away from unmotorised gliders. It's self-interest, through and through. Simple as that. Motorised gliders are far better for several different reasons: 1. Reduce risks associated with landouts 2. Faster turn around time between flights 3. No need for expensive equipment for a launch 4. Reduce the number of people required to launch ......etc.... |
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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:45:09 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The argument that "purists" are better than "motorgliderists" is an argument used by miserable old men who try to assert that flying "pure" gliders is more difficult that flying motorised gliders in order to discourage the next generation from adopting emerging technologies. They do this because they themselves own a "pure" (unmotorised) glider and they don't want their large investment to reduce to $0 as people move away from unmotorised gliders. It's self-interest, through and through. Simple as that. Motorised gliders are far better for several different reasons: 1. Reduce risks associated with landouts 2. Faster turn around time between flights 3. No need for expensive equipment for a launch 4. Reduce the number of people required to launch .....etc.... Richardson, I do not recall mentioning the word difficult on any of my post, that word never came into the conversation. This is all about advantage. Sustainers would have the same turn around time as the purist since the sustainer cannot self launch. The expense of a self launch is probably comparative to a pure glider and a respectable tow plane. I guess it is just the miserable old man syndrome that keeps us going. |
#9
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Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2
On 4/12/2021 6:45 AM, Douglas Richardson wrote:
... Motorised gliders are far better for several different reasons: ... 3. No need for expensive equipment for a launch Ha! |
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