Methods for altitude changes

Thanx Dave... now we wait for MXs inevitable counter replies.. I made the
error and got into many debates, if he does not get "his" answer.. he keeps
pushing and not accepting the advice of many with 30+yrs experience. I will
comment on other inputs.. but I will not answer MX.

It seems he is a walking... wait.. sitting wikepedia... on so many topics...
remember that wikepedia is written by less than average people with
something to say... yes there is knowledge there... not to discount
wikepedia.. but it is un moderated.

BT

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Well stated!

Of all the above, 2 knew the answer and posted proper replies....

Others could not wait to trumpet their attitude... (sigh)

..a lot of noise on this NG, and it is not from MX...

Dave





On 8 Apr 2007 06:16:12 -0700, wrote:


It depends on the situation, but for your specific example...

As a real student pilot (real as in, my feet leave the ground) I would
like to thank FlyCherokee and BT for their informative posts.

Guys, I do appreciate the frustration with Mxsmaniac, but I sometimes
think (having lurked in this group for a while) that you are all a
little too quick to show-off your razor-sharp wit in response to his/
her posts. If you are going to respond, why not do it productively?
Believe me, there are some of us here that do appreciate your
experience and insight. It is even interesting to see how the
experience of real flight conflicts with a simulated experience (the
obvious, of course, being the severity of a 'crash' ))

I am certain that anyone with the brain power to safely operate an
aircraft, has the ability to keep on topic without being drawn into a
flamewar.... despite Mxsmaniacs 'crosswind' effect.

Thanks.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Well stated!

Of all the above, 2 knew the answer and posted proper replies....

Others could not wait to trumpet their attitude... (sigh)

..a lot of noise on this NG, and it is not from MX...

Dave


I'd have to disagree. ANY student pilot that didn't know the answer to that
question needs to be looking for a new flight instructor. No one was posting
answers, because they didn't want to feed the troll.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Well stated!

Of all the above, 2 knew the answer and posted proper replies....

Others could not wait to trumpet their attitude... (sigh)

..a lot of noise on this NG, and it is not from MX...

Dave





On 8 Apr 2007 06:16:12 -0700, wrote:


It depends on the situation, but for your specific example...

As a real student pilot (real as in, my feet leave the ground) I would
like to thank FlyCherokee and BT for their informative posts.

Guys, I do appreciate the frustration with Mxsmaniac, but I sometimes
think (having lurked in this group for a while) that you are all a
little too quick to show-off your razor-sharp wit in response to his/
her posts. If you are going to respond, why not do it productively?
Believe me, there are some of us here that do appreciate your
experience and insight. It is even interesting to see how the
experience of real flight conflicts with a simulated experience (the
obvious, of course, being the severity of a 'crash' ))

I am certain that anyone with the brain power to safely operate an
aircraft, has the ability to keep on topic without being drawn into a
flamewar.... despite Mxsmaniacs 'crosswind' effect.

Thanks.


I agree 100%. I have no problems reading his posts or ligit responses. It
is the contant flaming of MX that is clogging up this newsgroup. Let me
repeat this. It is the flaming of MX that is the problem here!!!

Danny Deger

I merely wanted to speak about full rich full power climbs mentioned by Mr
Cherokee... many POH suggest leaning for max power take offs at high DA
airports... why should the DA airport make any difference than climbing at
high DA altitudes... you still want performance from the engine.. while
keeping the engine safe from overheating

I did not intend to answer MX

BT

wrote in message
oups.com...

It depends on the situation, but for your specific example...

As a real student pilot (real as in, my feet leave the ground) I would
like to thank FlyCherokee and BT for their informative posts.

Guys, I do appreciate the frustration with Mxsmaniac, but I sometimes
think (having lurked in this group for a while) that you are all a
little too quick to show-off your razor-sharp wit in response to his/
her posts. If you are going to respond, why not do it productively?
Believe me, there are some of us here that do appreciate your
experience and insight. It is even interesting to see how the
experience of real flight conflicts with a simulated experience (the
obvious, of course, being the severity of a 'crash' ))

I am certain that anyone with the brain power to safely operate an
aircraft, has the ability to keep on topic without being drawn into a
flamewar.... despite Mxsmaniacs 'crosswind' effect.

Thanks.

"BT" wrote in message
...
I merely wanted to speak about full rich full power climbs mentioned by Mr
Cherokee... many POH suggest leaning for max power take offs at high DA
airports... why should the DA airport make any difference than climbing at
high DA altitudes... you still want performance from the engine.. while
keeping the engine safe from overheating

---------remainder snipped-------

At the moment, I can't seem to lay hands on my meager collection of POHs,
but my recollection is that the issue of climbing at high density altitude
was covered indirectly. The aircraft for which I had/have a POH all had
fixed pitch props and, IIRC, all mentioned some density altitude above which
the engine should be leaned to peak rpm when cruising at full throttle.

Inasmuch as the rpm might decrease in a full throttle climbe at best rate of
climb airspeed, it is possible that the recommended minimum altitude for
leaning to peak rpm might be different, and this *may* have been addressed
as well. Basically, it is usually based on 75% power; but I just don't know
enough to assert that both both altitudes are really one and the same.

A call to customer support at the airframe and/or engine manufacturer might
yeild some excellent insight. Of course, if they provide references to
where the information is readily available, please post the reference--I am
sure that I am not the only reader of this NG who's research could use some
help from time to time.

Peter

Peter Dohm wrote:

Inasmuch as the rpm might decrease in a full throttle climbe at best rate of
climb airspeed, it is possible that the recommended minimum altitude for
leaning to peak rpm might be different, and this *may* have been addressed
as well. Basically, it is usually based on 75% power; but I just don't know
enough to assert that both both altitudes are really one and the same.


You hit the nail on the head. Leaning at wide open throttle will be done
at a lower altitude for a climb than for cruise. That's due to the lower rpm
you'll get while climbing. In level flight, the engine (assuming normally
aspirated, fixed pitch) will produce 75% up to 7.5K - 8K ft. In a climb, you
can lean at a lower DA because the prop load will keep the engine from
turning as fast as it would in a level cruise altitude.

The manual for my '68 Cherokee includes the recommendation to lean for max
rpm on a climbout from 5K ft. DA or higher. The Power vs. Density altitude
chart provides guidance for cruise settings at altitude.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200704/1

"BT" wrote in message
...
I merely wanted to speak about full rich full power climbs mentioned by Mr
Cherokee... many POH suggest leaning for max power take offs at high DA
airports... why should the DA airport make any difference than climbing at
high DA altitudes... you still want performance from the engine.. while
keeping the engine safe from overheating

I did not intend to answer MX


No problem. Just reframe your question and start a new post.

I have a memory of taking off from Grand Canyon Airport in a Mooney
201 in the summer and the density altitude had to be 9000 feet. I had
to lean at full throttle to get reasonable power in that circumstance.
I was getting pulled around the sky by an IO 360.

I don't remember the POH instructions for those conditions but sure
know how read RPMs and CHTs and treat engines with TLC.





On Apr 8, 7:23 pm, "Maxwell" wrote:
"BT" wrote in message

...

I merely wanted to speak about full rich full power climbs mentioned by Mr
Cherokee... many POH suggest leaning for max power take offs at high DA
airports... why should the DA airport make any difference than climbing at
high DA altitudes... you still want performance from the engine.. while
keeping the engine safe from overheating

I did not intend to answer MX

No problem. Just reframe your question and start a new post.

"BT" wrote in message
...
I merely wanted to speak about full rich full power climbs mentioned by Mr
Cherokee... many POH suggest leaning for max power take offs at high DA
airports... why should the DA airport make any difference than climbing at
high DA altitudes... you still want performance from the engine.. while
keeping the engine safe from overheating

snip

If you are confused by when to lean, do what I did -- buy a 40's plane that
has no mixture control :-)

Danny Deger

I suggest you read through:
www.av8n.com

a very good discussion of energy management in aircraft.

http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/energy.h...ontrols-energy

This section discusses the effect of various controls on an aircraft
(power/pitch, etc). The entire website is a worthwhile read, however.

The short answer to your question is that pitch climbing is fast,
imprecise, and tends to throw the aircraft way out of trim. Power
adjustments on the other hand are rather slow, tremendously precise,
and allow the aircraft to remain stabilized in the same configuration.