Swift Boat Veterans For Truth: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?

For Truth: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 8/23/2004 1:17 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: t


"jenn" wrote in message
...

O'Neill was recruited by Nixon to attack Kerry in 1971 and has been at
it ever since -- he is clearly a Rove operative --


What hard evidence do you have of that?

There is no hard evidence since it isn't true.

The fact remains those of us who were there were offended by kerry's
accusations and lies about us. Nixon didn't have to hire any vets.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote in message
...
For Truth: Are They Going To Sink John Kerry?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 8/23/2004 1:17 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: t


"jenn" wrote in message
...

O'Neill was recruited by Nixon to attack Kerry in 1971 and has been at
it ever since -- he is clearly a Rove operative --


What hard evidence do you have of that?

There is no hard evidence since it isn't true.


Bingo!

"Chris Manteuffel" wrote in message
m...

Are you sure that that quote is correct?


It's a copy and paste from The Boston Globe site. Here's the full
paragraph:

His personal ambitions notwithstanding, Kerry gave clear public voice to the
same position taken by the veterans group. In his appearance before William
Fulbright's Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971, Kerry
volunteered this straightforward testimony: "I committed the same kinds of
atrocities as thousands of others in that I shot in free fire zones, used
harassment and interdiction fire, joined in search and destroy missions, and
burned villages. All of these acts were established policies from the top
down, and the men who ordered this are war criminals."


Here's a link to it:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/liv...rys_conflicts/



http://www.cwes01.com/13790/23910/ktpp179-210.pdf

is a scan of the testimony as printed by the GPO. I have spent a lot
of time with these transcripts from the same period and the font and
format match the ones I have pulled out on paper exactly. If it has
been edited someone has gone to a lot of trouble. Note that Human
Events, the group that supplied the transcript, is an anti-Kerry
group; their analysis of the testimony is at

http://www.cwes01.com/13790/23910/ktpp179-210.pdf

It never mentions any quote like that you provided either.


Gee. Do ya think The Boston Globe is an anti-Kerry group as well?



I can't find any such quote where he admits to war crimes in his sworn
testimony as recorded here. The closest I can find (p. 6-7 of the
sourced document) is somewhat different.

"We are here in Washington also to say that the problem of this war is
not just a question of war and diplomacy. It is part and parcel of
everything that we are trying as human beings to communicate to people
in this country, the question of racism, which is rampant in the
military, and so many other questions also, the use of weapons, the
hypocrisy in our taking umbrage in the Geneva Conventions and using
that as justification for a continuation of this war, when we are more
guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions,
[CDM note- 1954 Geneva Conventions that created North and South
Vietnam, not the 1949 Geneva Conventions on the laws of Land Warfare]
in the use of free fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search
and destroy missions, the bombings, the torture of prisoners, the
killings of prisoners, accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam.
That is what we are trying to say. It is part and parcel of
everything."

From reading the testimony that is closest I can find to the quote you
provide above. If you could provide a source I'd be much appreciative.


You're welcome.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Chris Manteuffel" wrote in message
m...

Are you sure that that quote is correct?



It's a copy and paste from The Boston Globe site. Here's the full
paragraph:

His personal ambitions notwithstanding, Kerry gave clear public voice to the
same position taken by the veterans group. In his appearance before William
Fulbright's Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971, Kerry
volunteered this straightforward testimony: "I committed the same kinds of
atrocities as thousands of others in that I shot in free fire zones, used
harassment and interdiction fire, joined in search and destroy missions, and
burned villages. All of these acts were established policies from the top
down, and the men who ordered this are war criminals."


Does this mean that LBJ was a war criminal?


--
---------------------------------
The Golden Years Sux.

Osprey wrote:

Bush has come out and asked who ever is responsible for those ads to pull
them.

He asked Kerry to do the same. What are the chances Kerry asks Moveon.org to
stop their slander campaign? How about Michael Moore?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Osprey wrote:

Bush has come out and asked who ever is responsible for those ads to pull
them.

He asked Kerry to do the same. What are the chances Kerry asks Moveon.org
to
stop their slander campaign? How about Michael Moore?


Zero. But you knew that.

David Fritzinger wrote:

we understand that turning his back on terrorism in order to fight a
vanity war in Iraq has made us less safe --


But what you don't understand is that did not happen.

You seem to be very good at making statements like the above, but not
so good at backing them up.

Anyone with even the most basic knowledge on the operations in Afghanistan know
that "jenn"'s statement is false.

Why?

One assumes that when someone makes a statement on an issue, their informed on
the subject. In this case I believe "jenn" is just not up to speed on the
operation.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message ...

snip of stuff I had already posted about, correcting Mr. McNicoll's
wrong attribution


Are you thinking it only is valid if
he did so during his congressional testimony? If that is the case, then by
the same logic we cannot accept anything he says when not under oath?

No. I was engaging in primary research. And when I could not find it
in the cited work, I asked him for clarification.

As you will note, I posted a correct cite, with complete trancript to
his present day thoughts and authortative cite, a full half a day
before you posted this message
).

Chris Manteuffel

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

His quoted words in question were not delivered to Congress; he made that
statement instead on national television:


How do you know that? According to The Boston Globe he said it before the
Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"Chris Manteuffel" wrote in message
om...
"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

snip of stuff I had already posted about, correcting Mr. McNicoll's
wrong attribution


How do you know Mr. McNicoll's attribution is wrong?