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#41
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Us and Them
On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 15:50:07 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote in : In article , Larry Dighera wrote: Clinton established the fact that ATC was an inherently governmental function, thus blocking privatization efforts and their requisite user fees. when? It would seem, that it was about December 7, 2000: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...11de00-135.pdf Federal Register Vol. 65, No. 238 Monday, December 11, 2000 Title 3— The President Executive Order 13180 of December 7, 2000 Air Traffic Performance-Based Organization By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to further improve the provision of air traffic services, an inherently governmental function, in ways that increase efficiency, take better advantage of new technologies, accelerate modernization efforts, and respond more effectively to the needs of the traveling public, while enhancing the safety, security, and efficiency of the Nation’s air transportation system, it is hereby ordered as follows: [...] iirc, it was the Clinton administration that was pushing user fees circa 1996 Be that as it may, they weren't pushing for ATC Privatization. |
#42
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Us and Them
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote: Clinton established the fact that ATC was an inherently governmental function, thus blocking privatization efforts and their requisite user fees. when? It would seem, that it was about December 7, 2000: [snip] The PBO stuff does nothing to block user fees. -- Bob Noel (gave up looking for a particular sig the lawyer will hate) |
#43
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Us and Them
On 1 Apr 2007 18:52:42 -0700, "cjcampbell"
wrote in .com: Now you're claiming that the Democrats are the flag carriers for the lower taxes movement. What gave you that idea? I'm pointing out that Bush embraces federal government privatization, and Clinton didn't. Nothing more. Sometimes I have difficulty comprehending your inferences, CJ. You seem to jump to erroneous conclusions rather easily. Why is that? User fees are a dumb idea (because they're an administrative and fiscal nightmare), but that's what it's going to take to enable ATC privatization. Don't get me wrong, it's only equitable for the ATC system users, pilots and commercial passengers, to fund the ATC system, as they do now. But wresting our nation's navigable airspace from governmental control, dismantling the best ATC system on the face of the planet, and handing it over to a heartless, faceless, corporate entity that has demonstrated its ruthless history of criminality in obtaining government contracts in the recent past, is just too arrogant for words. It's a worse proposition than handing over control of our nation's sea ports to an Arab corporation! It is the airlines who are fueling the burgeoning growth of air operations, not GA. It is the airlines who should shoulder the lion's share of the NextGen future ATC system; GA should not have the burden of funding something that is demanded by the airlines; that would be unjust. But the airlines don't have the enormous capital resources necessary to plan, construct, implement, man, test and deploy NextGen ATC, so they need to remove Congressional oversight of FAA funding in order to obtain the "blank-check" required to pay for the years of development required. Government privatization is just another corporate attempt to boondoggle our government out of its peoples' tax dollars, at the expense of public accountability. Corporations don't participate in Freedom of Information Act transparency. ... Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts. -- Larry Dighera, |
#44
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Us and Them
On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 22:57:25 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote in : The PBO stuff does nothing to block user fees. That seems true. It's only equitable that ATC be funded by its users: pilots, the traveling public, and the airlines who demand its improvement in order to enable their continued growth. The current system of collecting those funds is simple, cheap, and most importantly, currently in-place. A pay-for-each-ATC-service-used ATC funding system will require dismantling the current functional funding system, creation and implementation of the new system, and the cost of keeping track of each operation, and billing the correct user, will generate so much paper and mail, that the cost of collecting the fees may well approach the value of the fees themselves. It's a dumb idea. |
#45
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Us and Them
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... What gave you that idea? I'm pointing out that Bush embraces federal government privatization, and Clinton didn't. Nothing more. Privatization of VFR towers occurred during the Clinton administration. |
#46
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Us and Them
On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:32:42 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in et: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . What gave you that idea? I'm pointing out that Bush embraces federal government privatization, and Clinton didn't. Nothing more. Privatization of VFR towers occurred during the Clinton administration. Wasn't the FAA practice of operating "contract towers" a long standing policy that spanned many administrations and is continuing to occur during the present administration? Incidentally, have you got a link to information about FDR's establishing ATC as being an inherently governmental function as you asserted earlier in this thread? |
#47
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Us and Them
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... Wasn't the FAA practice of operating "contract towers" a long standing policy that spanned many administrations and is continuing to occur during the present administration? Incidentally, have you got a link to information about FDR's establishing ATC as being an inherently governmental function as you asserted earlier in this thread? I said it happened during FDR's administration, I didn't say that FDR had any direct involvement in it. This is the only online source that I'm aware of: http://www.faa.gov/about/media/b-chron.pdf Late 1935 through 1936 would be the period in question. A better source is "Bonfires to Beacons: Federal Civil Aviation Policy Under the Air Commerce Act 1926-1938" by Nick A. Komons. |
#48
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Us and Them
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... Wasn't the FAA practice of operating "contract towers" a long standing policy that spanned many administrations and is continuing to occur during the present administration? I don't think so. I believe the first FAA contract towers were established in the early '80s, but there were only 20 or 30 by 1994 or so. I think something like 200 FAA towers were contracted out during the Clinton administration. |
#49
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Us and Them
("Steven P. McNicoll" wrote)
Incidentally, have you got a link to information about FDR's establishing ATC as being an inherently governmental function as you asserted earlier in this thread? I said it happened during FDR's administration, I didn't say that FDR had any direct involvement in it. You split a hair that wasn't there ...or was it? Did the decision come down from the courts? Did the decision emanate from congress? Was the executive branch behind the 'new' policy? (...if yes, it gets an FDR stamp on it) http://www.faa.gov/about/media/b-chron.pdf (Not ATC specifically, but interesting regulation info from the link) Aug 1, 1928: As a first step toward promoting uniform state aeronautical legislation consistent with Federal law, the Aeronautics Branch issued Aeronautics Bulletin No. 18 reviewing the characteristics of various state statutes and setting forth suggested drafts of required laws. At this time, 20 states had no aeronautical legislation. (See Dec 16, 1930.) Dec 16, 1930: The Aeronautics Branch opened the National Conference on Uniform Aeronautic Regulatory Laws. Representatives from 45 states, Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico, and the Philippine Islands attended the two-day meeting to discuss uniformity of air regulations. (See Aug 1, 1928, and Mar 23, 1933.) Mar 23, 1933: Enactment of legislation by the State of Georgia meant that all of the 48 States had laws dealing with aeronautics (see Aug 1, 1928, and Mar 1946). Georgia’s new law included a requirement that all airmen and aircraft operating within the state have Federal licenses. This provision was included in most, but not all, of the other state aeronautical laws (see Dec 1, 1941). Montblack An Eisenhower baby ....Feb, 1960 Oct 1, 1926: Northwest Airways began service as a contract mail carrier. The company began passenger service the following year, and expanded its routes in the late twenties and early thirties, changing its name to Northwest Airlines on Apr 16, 1934. Further expansion included routes to Asia, beginning in the 1940s, and for a time the carrier used the name Northwest Orient Airlines. Jul 2, 1932: Franklin D. Roosevelt became the first U.S. presidential candidate to fly when he chartered a Ford Trimotor from Albany to Chicago to address the Democratic National Convention. (See Jan 14, 1943.) |
#50
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Us and Them
"Montblack" wrote in message ... You split a hair that wasn't there ...or was it? If I split it, it's there. Did the decision come down from the courts? Did the decision emanate from congress? Was the executive branch behind the 'new' policy? (...if yes, it gets an FDR stamp on it) Do the research and report back. |
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