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Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 23rd 20, 02:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Hogue
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Posts: 25
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6
  #2  
Old January 23rd 20, 02:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 5:39:31 AM UTC-8, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6


Butterfly from Air-Avionics. There are a few dealers with units in stock.
  #3  
Old January 23rd 20, 04:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Posts: 718
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 8:58:52 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 5:39:31 AM UTC-8, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also..

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6


Butterfly from Air-Avionics. There are a few dealers with units in stock..


They are discontinued. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...Q/cK3cRwFMAAAJ .
  #4  
Old January 23rd 20, 04:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Jonathan St. Cloud wrote on 1/23/2020 5:58 AM:
I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6

Butterfly from Air-Avionics. There are a few dealers with units in stock.


What Jonathan doesn't quite mention is Air Avionics is no longer selling the
Butterfly (aka as "Display S" or "Air Glide S"), which is manufactured for them by
Triadis. According to Air Avionics, their support for the vario will continue, and
possibly Triadis will decide to continue manufacturing and selling the vario and
other Air Glide products.

I have a Butterfly vario in my ASH 26 E (using static/pitot), and love it. It's
the best vario I've used, and it's AHRS (attitude indicator) and basic final glide
navigation are important features for me.

The speed of it's wind measurement is what sets it apart. A recent discussion on
the LXNAV Soaring Equipment User Discussion Group showed this, as pilots with or
interested in the LX 90xx glide computers wanted to know how well the LX vario
handled wind. The consensus was the Butterfly was the best.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


  #5  
Old January 23rd 20, 05:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 5:39:31 AM UTC-8, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6


I'd also recommend the Air Avionics. It has inertially derived air mass movement, which is how it does the wind calculations. I've seen/used the others and they don't compare. One possibility is the new Borgelt, expansive claims are made for it though the technical side is kept secret which is suspect.

Varios going all the way back to the 302 have MEMS inertial sensors in them, but Air Avionics seem to be the only ones to crack the software problem of using them.
  #6  
Old January 23rd 20, 09:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 20
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

I have not seen a better airmass vario system than the Butterfly. Most importantly to me, its wind solutions are amazingly good. It has been a game-changer for many in the Tehachapi-Southern Sierra tribe. The location of convergence lines is critical to X-C in the Owens Valley and Great Basin. The accuracy and update rate of Butterfly winds are outstanding and a tremendous asset it "convergence hunting. My only issue is its complexity, i.e., the large number of user-defined parameters available and what exactly their effects are on vario display, sensitivity and response. I have flown a Butterfly for 3 years, incrementally changing some parameters and am still not comfortable with its behaviors, especially when compared to the CAI 302.

It terms of "best" vario for X-C flying, the 302 is also very good and an incredible value.
  #7  
Old January 23rd 20, 10:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 12:53:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I have not seen a better airmass vario system than the Butterfly. Most importantly to me, its wind solutions are amazingly good. It has been a game-changer for many in the Tehachapi-Southern Sierra tribe. The location of convergence lines is critical to X-C in the Owens Valley and Great Basin. The accuracy and update rate of Butterfly winds are outstanding and a tremendous asset it "convergence hunting. My only issue is its complexity, i.e., the large number of user-defined parameters available and what exactly their effects are on vario display, sensitivity and response. I have flown a Butterfly for 3 years, incrementally changing some parameters and am still not comfortable with its behaviors, especially when compared to the CAI 302.

It terms of "best" vario for X-C flying, the 302 is also very good and an incredible value.


No just for convergence: I been able to find weak waves on days when it was very difficult by watching the sudden increase in headwind. I will see an increase of 5 - 10 knots and sure enough there it is. Also have found persistent exploitable afternoon Zephyrs in the Minden area. Never have seen these on the more traditional wind calcs.

Paired with iGlide, you will get a wind vector calculated each second and displayed in the lift dot of the thermal assistant. The wind vectors reliably point towards the center of the lift. I've been told this may be unique to rough/strong western thermals, but it works well there in strong but very inconsistent (and therefore hard to center) lift.
  #8  
Old January 24th 20, 02:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected][_1_]
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Posts: 97
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

Completely agree. Wind vectors reliably point toward the center of local lift. I have noticed that when centered in the strongest part of a thermal, the wind drops to zero. Very comforting and useful information.

Amazing instrument. I hope it continues to be supported and evolved. I do not believe the vario parts of the system are fully mature.
  #9  
Old January 24th 20, 03:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Borgelt[_2_]
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Posts: 29
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range



Next batch of Dynamis varios planned to be available no later than mid April 2020.

Zero sensitivity to horizontal gusts, excellent total energy, wind vector in real time.

57mm or 80mm size. Interfaces with phones, tablets, Oudie for controlling bugs, ballast and MacCready etc. or can be controlled by small Glare shield controller/display.

Logarithmic or linear scale available.

See www.borgeltinstruments.com B600/B800 is the vario part. Dynamis box lives behind panel.

Also Dynamis flight demonstration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiSCU84mCng&t=348s

Mike Borgelt

Borgelt Instruments



On Thursday, 23 January 2020 23:39:31 UTC+10, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also.

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6


  #10  
Old January 24th 20, 08:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,134
Default Best vario for airmass awareness across the speed range

On Thursday, January 23, 2020 at 6:46:54 PM UTC-8, Mike Borgelt wrote:
Next batch of Dynamis varios planned to be available no later than mid April 2020.

Zero sensitivity to horizontal gusts, excellent total energy, wind vector in real time.

57mm or 80mm size. Interfaces with phones, tablets, Oudie for controlling bugs, ballast and MacCready etc. or can be controlled by small Glare shield controller/display.

Logarithmic or linear scale available.

See www.borgeltinstruments.com B600/B800 is the vario part. Dynamis box lives behind panel.

Also Dynamis flight demonstration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiSCU84mCng&t=348s

Mike Borgelt

Borgelt Instruments



On Thursday, 23 January 2020 23:39:31 UTC+10, Jim Hogue wrote:
Any suggestions? Either currently available or coming in the near future (next year or so) would be ok, I am not in a rush. Prefer it would fit in one 57mm hole.

I take care of navigation and tasks with other standalone devices (full on OpenVario with its own vario/STF sensor board, and a Kobo backup) so I don’t really need any nav functions. Above all I want the best total energy and gust compensated technology available, the best to allow me to understand airmass movement while cruising across the full speed range. I want MacReady speed-to-fly function (although I use that as advisory information only, I don’t aggressively dolphin fly...). I also need climb/cruise and airmass awareness audio functionality of course, head-out-of-the-cockpit being best.

I fly an ASH-26E, and I would prefer a system that can work off just pitot and static, avoiding the vertical fin mounted TE probe (which gets hammered during engine runs). This is because thermalling during powered climb can be important to me when flying out of high density altitude airports. But if using the TE probe gets me significantly better airmass awareness in cruise, I would take that.

I am attracted to the FLARM voice warnings that the S8/S10 units give, but I would do without this in order to get the best airmass awareness.

My OpenVario gives me a thermalling assist graphic which seems to work great, but if the new system offers improvement here I would like that also..

Please offer you experiences and knowledge here. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jim J6


I'd be interested to know more about this instrument, starting with the price. Also the principal behind its operation. That would make it seem less like vaporware.
 




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