Tow endorsement must include 3 glider flights as PIC?

So PIC time is not dual time, so how do we get a new tow pilot 3 PIC flights in a glider? It didn't used to require PIC time, as I remember, just 3 flights, right?
61.69a(6) Page 74 in the 2015 FAR AIM

Boggs

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 4:30:16 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
So PIC time is not dual time, so how do we get a new tow pilot 3 PIC flights in a glider? It didn't used to require PIC time, as I remember, just 3 flights, right?
61.69a(6) Page 74 in the 2015 FAR AIM

Boggs

It didn't say solo, it said PIC.

IIRC, if he/she is the, "Sole manipulator of the controls", it's PIC time. Look up the PIC definition.

Re the previous reply--

I always thought PIC was one of those concepts with more than one meaning.

For logbook purposes, I thought you had to have the appropriate rating for the aircraft in question.

Has something changed in this regard?

Do student pilots log PIC time?

On a more for practical level, would you allow someone who is not a glider pilot to be the sole manipulator of the controls in a glider? For the whole flight, takeoff to landing? How many prior flights would be needed to get him/her up to this point of proficiency?

Something is not adding up here...

S

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 4:30:16 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
So PIC time is not dual time, so how do we get a new tow pilot 3 PIC flights in a glider? It didn't used to require PIC time, as I remember, just 3 flights, right?
61.69a(6) Page 74 in the 2015 FAR AIM

Boggs

I would say you have to solo a glider to get PIC, that's how its done at our club.
Glen

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 2:30:16 PM UTC-6, Waveguru wrote:
So PIC time is not dual time, so how do we get a new tow pilot 3 PIC flights in a glider? It didn't used to require PIC time, as I remember, just 3 flights, right?
61.69a(6) Page 74 in the 2015 FAR AIM

Boggs

Seems like a simple answer to me: train the tow pilot to solo in a glider. That is a requirement at many clubs I have flown at. A sensible one as well.

Chris

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 1:30:16 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
So PIC time is not dual time, so how do we get a new tow pilot 3 PIC flights in a glider? It didn't used to require PIC time, as I remember, just 3 flights, right?
61.69a(6) Page 74 in the 2015 FAR AIM

Boggs

6) Within the preceding 12 months has-
(i) Made at least three actual or simulated tows of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle while accompanied by a qualified pilot who meets the requirements of this section; or
(ii) Made at least three flights as pilot in command of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle towed by an aircraft.

Please note the "or" at the 6(i), seems to me all you need is three actual or simulated tows, three flights as PIC of a towed glider is simply an alternative means of meeting the requirement...

Marc

Currency requirements for someone towing a glider are covered in
FAR 61.69a(6) Within 24 calendar months before the flight has--

(i) Made at least three actual or simulated tows of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle while accompanied by a qualified pilot who meets the requirements of this section; or

(ii) Made at least three flights as pilot in command of a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle towed by an aircraft.


A tow pilot without a glider rating or PIC category endorsement must meet (i).

A tow pilot with a current glider rating could act as PIC with or without a passenger or instructor in the glider if he meets the 90 day currency requirement to carry passengers when the second person in the glider is not an instructor.

A pilot without a glider rating, but with a glider additional category PIC endorsement may act as Pilot in Command during Solo Operations - FAR 61.31(d)(2)

(d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings: Limitations on operating an aircraft as the pilot in command. To serve as the pilot in command of an aircraft, a person must--
......
(2) Have received training required by this part that is appropriate to the pilot certification level, aircraft category, class, and type rating (if a class or type rating is required) for the aircraft to be flown, and have received an endorsement for solo flight in that aircraft from an authorized instructor.

The Glider Category Additional Rating Endorsement to act as Pilot in Command during Solo Operations - FAR 61.31(d)(2) is as follows.

I certify that M _______ has received flight instruction in the pilot operations required for first solo in a (Glider Type) and find him competent to solo that glider.for a glider may meet (i) or (ii) acting as PIC when flying alone in the glider.

Come on you guys. Get serious. If we had to solo everybody in a glider before he could tow we wouldn't have many tow pilots.

Boggs

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 at 6:14:54 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
Come on you guys. Get serious. If we had to solo everybody in a glider before he could tow we wouldn't have many tow pilots.

Boggs

That'a why (i) is available to those who cannot fly a glider as PIC. :-)

And you think the FAA makes logical rules???

5Z

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 1:14:54 PM UTC+12, Waveguru wrote:
Come on you guys. Get serious. If we had to solo everybody in a glider before he could tow we wouldn't have many tow pilots.

What kind of competent tow pilot isn't capable of getting solo in a glider in a weekend?