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#61
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"Sam Spade" wrote in message ... I have been reviewing the transcript and actual tape of the Lexingon tower during the period pertinent to the crash of Comair 5191. The tower controller called the center for a release for each IFR departure on the tape. Wrong. The tower controller did not call the LEX sector at ZID for an IFR release of any of the five aircraft on the tape. He called ZID TMU for flow releases on SKW6819 to ORD and COM191 to ATL. TMU is Traffic Management Unit, aka flow control. |
#62
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"Sam Spade" wrote in message ... I guess that was the case. The local controller was using the ASR and did approve a heading change for weather for one aircraft but he let the Center know about that. It sounds confusing. A G/A pilot could show up VFR 25 miles out and call LEX Approach for an ILS. Would the local controller ship him off to Indy Center or would he call Indy for permission to vector the guy onto the ILS? He would do neither, ZID had not assumed the LEX approach airspace. |
#63
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"Sam Spade" wrote in message ... This is from the NTSB ATC Chairman's report about Comair 5191 and confirmed by the transcript and ATC tape: "At 0447 (UTC), all LEX tower and radar positions were combined and being worked from the local control position in the tower cab. In addition to those functons, the tower controller was responsible for obtaining releases from the Indianapolis (ZID) Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) Traffic Management Unit (TMU), and recording the ATIS broadcast and all other operational and administrative duties required of a tower/radar facility." An IFR tower does not call for an IFR release, it may have to call for a flow release if the aircraft is going to an applicable destination such as ORD or ATL. |
#64
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
hlink.net: "A Lieberma" wrote in message 8... FSS gives releases????? I was always told FSS passes on FSS clearances and you get a ATC clearance through FSS. What's an FSS clearance? FSSs relay ATC clearances to aircraft and they may very well include a release window. Then it's an ATC clearance. FSS do not give clearances or releases. In fact it's required that FSS says ATC clears you, and gives you the CRAFT which may or may not include a void time. Allen |
#65
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"Sam Spade" wrote in message ... My knowledge of how ATC operates is limited, as I am not a controller. I am a professional pilot and work with TERPs criteria. Based on the knowledge of flying and TERPS you've displayed in these forums I find that very hard to believe. Those two areas are your areas of limited knowledge. Ya think? What do you base that on? |
#66
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"A Lieberma" wrote in message . 18... "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in hlink.net: "A Lieberma" wrote in message 8... FSS gives releases????? I was always told FSS passes on FSS clearances and you get a ATC clearance through FSS. What's an FSS clearance? FSSs relay ATC clearances to aircraft and they may very well include a release window. Then it's an ATC clearance. FSS do not give clearances or releases. In fact it's required that FSS says ATC clears you, and gives you the CRAFT which may or may not include a void time. FSSs gives clearances and releases to aircraft that they've obtained from ATC. Obtain clearance from ATC + give clearance to aircraft = relayed clearance. |
#67
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
nk.net: "A Lieberma" wrote in message . 18... "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in hlink.net: "A Lieberma" wrote in message 8... FSS gives releases????? I was always told FSS passes on FSS clearances and you get a ATC clearance through FSS. What's an FSS clearance? FSSs relay ATC clearances to aircraft and they may very well include a release window. Then it's an ATC clearance. FSS do not give clearances or releases. In fact it's required that FSS says ATC clears you, and gives you the CRAFT which may or may not include a void time. FSSs gives clearances and releases to aircraft that they've obtained from ATC. Obtain clearance from ATC + give clearance to aircraft = relayed clearance. Call it whatever you want Steve. FSS does not ISSUE clearances. They don't give CRAFT assignments. Yes, they may relay clearances, but they don't issue them. Please see http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0402.html 4-2-2 b where it clearly states ATC clears. Allen |
#68
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"A Lieberma" wrote in message 8... Call it whatever you want Steve. FSS does not ISSUE clearances. They don't give CRAFT assignments. Yes, they may relay clearances, but they don't issue them. Nobody said otherwise. Please see http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0402.html 4-2-2 b where it clearly states ATC clears. No need, I'm completely familiar with FSS's role. |
#69
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he cleared Comair 5191 for takeoff
"Sam Spade" wrote in message ... I have been reviewing the transcript and actual tape of the Lexingon tower during the period pertinent to the crash of Comair 5191. The tower controller called the center for a release for each IFR departure on the tape. You performed a rather poor review. The tower controller did not call the center for any IFR releases. |
#70
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The Lexington ATC was NOT doing traffic count after he clearedComair 5191 for takeoff
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
How is 3-1-4 pertinent in this case? Nothing in the transcript suggests the controller failed to comply with anything you pasted above. a. Local controllers shall visually scan runways to the maximum extent possible. |
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