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#1
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A question only a newbie would ask
"H.P." wrote in message
. .. I'm taking lessons at KHPN. We've been warned about voluntary noise abatement procedures. Has any manufacturer contemplated or actually installed mufflers on piston planes? Muffler-equipped airplanes are not uncommon in Europe. They don't even look all that aerodynamic...just a big extension to the exhaust, sticking out and along the side of the cowl. Pete |
#2
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H.P. wrote:
Well, I wasn't aware - (the Cessna/King course doesn't cover it) - but they don't muffle much. As with anything, you learn about them when you have to replace them at the annual. Canada has a blanket AD for annual muffler inspections to reduce the risk of CO poisoning, so our AMEs (=A&Ps) tend to find muffler problems early and often. All the best, David |
#3
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ... "C J Campbell" wrote in message ... It is not laughable at all. If somebody wants me to buy something, they better first convince me that it has some benefit. We're not talking about getting you to buy something. We're talking about YOUR claim that mufflers don't work. It's one thing for you to have your reservation, or otherwise remain unconvinced. It's entirely another for you to make a flat out claim for which you have no basis to make. You've done the latter, and no amount of wishful thinking will turn it into the former. Your fantasizing and splitting hairs are getting tiresome. Show me a muffler that works, and I will retract my statement. Until then, I have not seen a muffler that significantly reduces aircraft noise. |
#4
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I wonder how many airport neighbors hear trucks on the highway gearing down
and think it's a noisy airplane disturbing their peace! "Earl Grieda" wrote in ink.net: "C J Campbell" wrote in message ... I do think that the demands of airport neighbors that airplanes make no noise whatsoever are unreasonable. I personally think that most complaints about noise are really just an excuse to make airplanes go away. Most people are basically superstitious morons who have irrational fears of anything that is even a little bit outside their experience. Making no noise is probably unreasonable. I suppose even a hot-air ballon makes some noise ascending. The airport/neighbor noise issue is difficult to resolve because "resonable/unreasonable" are to subective a term. Would a requirement that an aircraft on departure sound no louder at 500 feet than a 2005 factory Accord sound at full power accelerating from stop onto a freeway with 70 MPH traffic? Not for a new aircraft designed to that specification, but unreasonable for existing aircraft. But since it will take decades before existing aircraft disappear noise will be an issue over and over. I doubt if "most complaints about noise" are about making aircraft go away. They probably are about making the noise go away. Earl G |
#5
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C J Campbell wrote:
Seriously, if you want to claim that mufflers reduce noise, the onus is on you to prove that it does. Easy. Go to your next airfield ald listen to an aircraft with and one without a muffler. Ok, not so easy if you've never seen an aircraft with one. Best would be if you came to Europe and would listen to one of the new designs. You'd be very surprized. Stefan |
#6
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In article , "C J Campbell"
wrote: I do think that the demands of airport neighbors that airplanes make no noise whatsoever are unreasonable. I personally think that most complaints about noise are really just an excuse to make airplanes go away. The NIMBY crowd around KBED complained about the noise of the Shuttle America flights at first. Apparently someone noticed that the aircraft used by Shuttle America flights are quieter than the corporate jets and even some of the piston aircraft. But that didn't stop the NIMBY crowd from opposing the commuter flights. They merely "found" other reasons to oppose the use of KBED for scheduled flights. -- Bob Noel Seen on Kerry's campaign airplane: "the real deal" oh yeah baby. |
#7
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message
... "Corky Scott" wrote in message ... On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:01:51 -0700, "C J Campbell" wrote: Units such as you describe are required in Europe. They reduce power a bit and add weight. Most people also think they're ugly. They also don't work. I think you may be mistaken CJ. The mufflers do work or they would not be used. Seriously, if you want to claim that mufflers reduce noise, the onus is on you to prove that it does. It is not my burden to prove that it does not, any more than it is my burden to prove to those that believe in space aliens that flying saucers do not exist. http://www.hliese.de/International/international.html They quote 1) No loss in performance, 2) Weight 2lbs while making planes comply with strict German noise regulations. Paul |
#8
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"Gene Whitt" wrote in message
ink.net... Y'all, Several years ago I had a student buy a 700 hour C-182 that had been a Cessna Demonstrator in Europe. Before the aircraft could be registered in the U.S. the entire exhaust/muffler system had to be replaced to meet FAA noisier standards. Your tax dollars at work. It's the same here in the UK. If a plane is imported from Germany and the silencer isn't certified here, then off it comes. Stupid, but hopefully with JAR/EASA it'll mean something certified in one country will be acceptable to all. Paul |
#9
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message
... "Rick Durden" wrote in message m... As our population pressure increases and more and more airports are under pressure, we'll probably be faced with tougher noise requirements such as slower turning, shorter props and more effective mufflers. It won't be fun. Oh, I don't know. As someone who pretty much lives in small planes, I personally find the constant noise to be tiring. I would prefer a quieter airplane. All I ask of whatever we do to make the airplanes quieter is that it actually be effective. http://www.fly-flightstar.com/ I watched on Saturday as one of these took off from Sandown airfield on the Isle of Wight. It was unbelievable how quiet it was. Paul |
#10
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"Paul Sengupta" wrote in message
... http://www.fly-flightstar.com/ I watched on Saturday as one of these took off from Sandown airfield on the Isle of Wight. It was unbelievable how quiet it was. Sorry, too general, they do two... http://www.flyflightstar.com/pages/ctphoto.htm This was the one I meant. Paul |
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