Ercoupe

Bertie the Bunyip wrote in news:Xns9A5D20AC0F8B7****upropeeh@
207.14.116.130:

"Peter Dohm" wrote in
:



Someone, i think it was Joe Ott, modeled the thing for free flight in
the late thirties. It's a large FF model an amazingly close to scale.
Dihedral gear arrangement and all are fairly close. Probably the
tailplane has been enlarged but that's about it.

It was Earl Stahl. If anyone wants to make one i got some drawings for it
somewhere.

Bertie

"Dan" == Dan writes:

Dan Perhaps someone will know... Why hasn't the Ercoupe design
Dan been repackaged as a kit or LSA? It seems to be the ideal
Dan design for the casual weekend flier (with or without rudder
Dan pedals).

Dan Side by side, sips fuel, low gross weight, proven design,
Dan etc.

At best an Alon Aircoupe (later model with a different canopy) will
cruise at 100 kts...far short of the 120 kts legally possible. For
whatever reason the J-3 Cub enjoys a large following, enough to have
two modern LSA versions manufactured even though the performance of
the new ones doesn't improve much over the original. The Coupes never
had that kind of following so I think improvements would have to be
made over the original. That would increase the expense and it would
not be easy to achieve 120 kts cruise.

Best thing might be Van's RV-12 kit which should be for sale Real Soon.

--
"You, Mr. Wilkes, will die either of the pox or on the gallows."
-The Earl of Sandwich

On Mar 9, 9:42 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 9:04 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 8:23 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I've flown the Ercoupe. Not much to it really. It was fun running the
side windows down and flying along with my arm out on the edge of the
cockpit sort of like in a car.
The landings were a bit different if you had any crosswind at all, but
easily doable in the crab. Take off was the same. As soon as you broke
ground, it weather vaned into the wind with aileron. Sort of a "spooky"
little airplane but it flew quite well and was quite fast for its day.
The one I flew didn't have the later rudder capability. Never flew the Alon.
--
Dudley Henriques
Are you supposed to kick out the crab or land crabbed?
Aside: Maybe the Lufthansa FO learned in an Ercoupe?
Dan
Bertie called it right in his answer to this. It was the weirdest
feeling trust me. You eventually got used to it, but there really was
nothing under the panel on the floor except that stupid little brake
pedal. Some say they got some comfort out of pressing down on that brake
pedal during the last few feet in the flare. You crabbed it into the
wind and flew it onto the ground sometimes looking at the side of the
runway :-)) It kicked itself out ok. The gear was good and tough.

You land the F16 the same way BTW. You can't put a wing down in the
Viper and landing it in the crab is regular procedure. I never got used
to crab landings in the high performance airplanes that I flew. I always
had a tendency to want to lower that windward wing, usually doing that
just a bit anyway to ease the touchdown as much as possible.
Of course aircraft like the Viper have a rudder to help a bit with that.
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

I'd imagine it was a sudden twist once the mains hit!

I remember watching B-52s land -- there was no way to do a wing low in
a Buff -- the wings were already hanging down even with the belly!

Looking back on the weather they used to fly in, they had brass ones,
those guys...

Dan

The Buff has an ace in the hole. It has a crosswind gear that can be set
to align with the runway while the fuselage stays canted into the wind.
Watching one of those beasts land is a hoot :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Right! The nose would be pointed 20 degrees left, a/c tracking
straight. Creepy.

They also took off in what appeared to be a nose level attitude. The
big wings would go from drooping to not-so-droop and then the bird
would lift off.

I was in SAC, which meant every so often all the alert birds would do
a rolling runup as they started a takeoff roll.

If they took off, we knew we had about 8 minutes.

If they aborted, we knew it was an exercise.

Good for the adrenal system, that.

Dan

Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 9:42 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 9:04 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 8:23 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I've flown the Ercoupe. Not much to it really. It was fun running the
side windows down and flying along with my arm out on the edge of the
cockpit sort of like in a car.
The landings were a bit different if you had any crosswind at all, but
easily doable in the crab. Take off was the same. As soon as you broke
ground, it weather vaned into the wind with aileron. Sort of a "spooky"
little airplane but it flew quite well and was quite fast for its day.
The one I flew didn't have the later rudder capability. Never flew the Alon.
--
Dudley Henriques
Are you supposed to kick out the crab or land crabbed?
Aside: Maybe the Lufthansa FO learned in an Ercoupe?
Dan
Bertie called it right in his answer to this. It was the weirdest
feeling trust me. You eventually got used to it, but there really was
nothing under the panel on the floor except that stupid little brake
pedal. Some say they got some comfort out of pressing down on that brake
pedal during the last few feet in the flare. You crabbed it into the
wind and flew it onto the ground sometimes looking at the side of the
runway :-)) It kicked itself out ok. The gear was good and tough.
You land the F16 the same way BTW. You can't put a wing down in the
Viper and landing it in the crab is regular procedure. I never got used
to crab landings in the high performance airplanes that I flew. I always
had a tendency to want to lower that windward wing, usually doing that
just a bit anyway to ease the touchdown as much as possible.
Of course aircraft like the Viper have a rudder to help a bit with that.
:-))
--
Dudley Henriques
I'd imagine it was a sudden twist once the mains hit!
I remember watching B-52s land -- there was no way to do a wing low in
a Buff -- the wings were already hanging down even with the belly!
Looking back on the weather they used to fly in, they had brass ones,
those guys...
Dan
The Buff has an ace in the hole. It has a crosswind gear that can be set
to align with the runway while the fuselage stays canted into the wind.
Watching one of those beasts land is a hoot :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Right! The nose would be pointed 20 degrees left, a/c tracking
straight. Creepy.

They also took off in what appeared to be a nose level attitude. The
big wings would go from drooping to not-so-droop and then the bird
would lift off.

I was in SAC, which meant every so often all the alert birds would do
a rolling runup as they started a takeoff roll.

If they took off, we knew we had about 8 minutes.

If they aborted, we knew it was an exercise.

Good for the adrenal system, that.

Dan

The takeoff of the Buff is one of the strangest things I've ever watched
in aviation. You're right; it doesn't rotate, it just "leaves the earth"
:-)) Unbelievable airplane! I heard recently that SAC had a son in the
left seat flying the same Buff flown by his father years back. :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 10, 10:35 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 9:42 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 9:04 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 8:23 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I've flown the Ercoupe. Not much to it really. It was fun running the
side windows down and flying along with my arm out on the edge of the
cockpit sort of like in a car.
The landings were a bit different if you had any crosswind at all, but
easily doable in the crab. Take off was the same. As soon as you broke
ground, it weather vaned into the wind with aileron. Sort of a "spooky"
little airplane but it flew quite well and was quite fast for its day.
The one I flew didn't have the later rudder capability. Never flew the Alon.
--
Dudley Henriques
Are you supposed to kick out the crab or land crabbed?
Aside: Maybe the Lufthansa FO learned in an Ercoupe?
Dan
Bertie called it right in his answer to this. It was the weirdest
feeling trust me. You eventually got used to it, but there really was
nothing under the panel on the floor except that stupid little brake
pedal. Some say they got some comfort out of pressing down on that brake
pedal during the last few feet in the flare. You crabbed it into the
wind and flew it onto the ground sometimes looking at the side of the
runway :-)) It kicked itself out ok. The gear was good and tough.
You land the F16 the same way BTW. You can't put a wing down in the
Viper and landing it in the crab is regular procedure. I never got used
to crab landings in the high performance airplanes that I flew. I always
had a tendency to want to lower that windward wing, usually doing that
just a bit anyway to ease the touchdown as much as possible.
Of course aircraft like the Viper have a rudder to help a bit with that.
:-))
--
Dudley Henriques
I'd imagine it was a sudden twist once the mains hit!
I remember watching B-52s land -- there was no way to do a wing low in
a Buff -- the wings were already hanging down even with the belly!
Looking back on the weather they used to fly in, they had brass ones,
those guys...
Dan
The Buff has an ace in the hole. It has a crosswind gear that can be set
to align with the runway while the fuselage stays canted into the wind.
Watching one of those beasts land is a hoot :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Right! The nose would be pointed 20 degrees left, a/c tracking
straight. Creepy.

They also took off in what appeared to be a nose level attitude. The
big wings would go from drooping to not-so-droop and then the bird
would lift off.

I was in SAC, which meant every so often all the alert birds would do
a rolling runup as they started a takeoff roll.

If they took off, we knew we had about 8 minutes.

If they aborted, we knew it was an exercise.

Good for the adrenal system, that.

Dan

The takeoff of the Buff is one of the strangest things I've ever watched
in aviation. You're right; it doesn't rotate, it just "leaves the earth"
:-)) Unbelievable airplane! I heard recently that SAC had a son in the
left seat flying the same Buff flown by his father years back. :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Wouldn't be SAC now. In '92 (IIRC) SAC was reorg'd.

SAC, TAC, and MAC were combined into Air Mobility Command & Air Combat
Command.

I wonder what they did to all the old signs?

"Peace Through Strength. Victory Through Devastation"
"Peace Is Our Profession. War Is Just a Hobby."

Another true story...

As a young NCO I was given the task of making the weapons maintenance
bay more productive (in other words, we had nothing to do and it was
make-work).

So I used my mural talents to paint a 20' Mushroom cloud on the wall
with a head-on silhouette of a BUFF. Beneath the Buff the slogan,
"It's Miller Time."

I was putting the finishing touches on it when word came a VIP was
inbound.

An hour later, "Sergeant, this is Senator Paul Tsongas."

We'd done all we could to stack stuff against the wall, but his only
comment --"Nice mural."


Dan

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

I heard recently that SAC had a son in the left seat flying the same Buff
flown by his father years back. :-))


There's nothing new to that. I read recently of a Korean War era Corsair
being flown by the son of a pilot that flew it in WWII. I found that a bit
hard to believe but I let it pass. The BUFF has been in service long enough
to be flown by the grandchildren of earlier pilots, and could be in service
long enough to be flown by great-grandchildren.

On Mar 9, 6:23 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

The one I flew didn't have the later rudder capability. Never flew the Alon.

I did. It had rudder pedals, but there was little rudder response.
The airplane was uncomfortable and noisy, but it flew easily, and
outperformed our 150s on ten less HP. Took off shorter, climbed half
again as well, and cruised faster. Much sleeker than the 150, but had
no baggage space to speak of.

Dan

wrote:
On Mar 9, 6:23 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

The one I flew didn't have the later rudder capability. Never flew the Alon.

I did. It had rudder pedals, but there was little rudder response.
The airplane was uncomfortable and noisy, but it flew easily, and
outperformed our 150s on ten less HP. Took off shorter, climbed half
again as well, and cruised faster. Much sleeker than the 150, but had
no baggage space to speak of.

Dan
I remember the performance was good, even for the earlier Ercoupes. I
guess it was a combination of it's looks and the mass production
capabilities of Cessna and Piper that kept it from becoming more popular
than it did.
There are still a few flying.
The real legacy for the Ercoupe I believe has to be that the airplane
opened up the world of aviation for the physically challenged. I
remember one fellow on our field who arrived almost every Sunday if VFR
to stick his crutches into his Ercoupe and fly off for some flyin or
hamburger joint somewhere. I can still see the smile on his face when he
crutched on into our flight office, sat down, and joined in the "war
stories" we always seemed to have going on in there.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 9, 2:31*pm, Dan wrote:
Perhaps someone will know...

Why hasn't the Ercoupe design been repackaged as a kit or LSA? It
seems to be the ideal design for the casual weekend flier (with or
without rudder pedals).

Side by side, sips fuel, low gross weight, proven design, etc.

I'm not interested in buying one (see "slow") but the few people I
know who own or have flown them have nothing but praise for the design
given its mission.

Dan

If you can stand a single holer, there's this (with rudder peds):

http://www.theminicoupe.com/_wsn/page2.html

Not many flying I think. Looks fun though.

On Mar 9, 8:41 pm, Dan wrote:
On Mar 9, 8:38 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:



Dan wrote :

On Mar 9, 8:23 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

I've flown the Ercoupe. Not much to it really. It was fun running the
side windows down and flying along with my arm out on the edge of the
cockpit sort of like in a car.
The landings were a bit different if you had any crosswind at all,
but easily doable in the crab. Take off was the same. As soon as you
broke ground, it weather vaned into the wind with aileron. Sort of a
"spooky" little airplane but it flew quite well and was quite fast
for its day.

The one I flew didn't have the later rudder capability. Never flew
the Alon.

--
Dudley Henriques

Are you supposed to kick out the crab or land crabbed?

There's nothing to kick. It has a Brake pedal out of a 39 nash on the
floor and that's it.

Bertie

holy cow...

so you expect to side load?

It straightens itself out on landing.