Glider Hours

I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total time. Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter, gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on the air frame. While people might try to inflate their personal flying time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one way or another. Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to determine the true time on an airframe? I cant think of one.

Walt

You could look at the rubber pad on the pedals. Wait....that's for
Buicks.
Look, Walt....gliders are like good looking women. You walk up and if
you mumble "Damn"....you're most of the way home. If the owner will
let you touch it, your intuition will guide you the rest of the way.
No one really gives a sinking ship on the number of hours as you can't
hide wear and tear easily.
Of course, if you're talking about Tin Cans....it's 'Buyer Beware". A
detail inspection is in order.
A bigger concern over hours would be damage history not entered into
the log books. A very small concern at that though.
Or the type of flying...ridge vs. thermals. Glider home port...inland
vs. marine air. Outside vs. inside.
The reference of a seller would be most telling.
R

On Apr 26, 3:13*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. *Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. *While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. *Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? *I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

All the time I have logged in my ASW-28 is supported by electronic
flight logs with a 2 second sample interval. I log my flight time and
the glider usage to the nearest minuted based on those flight logs.

Glider flight history is typically recorded as number of launches or
starts, and total flight time. If you were in the market to buy mine
I could provide complete and accurate records including all the
electronic flight logs. Do you have $80K looking for a good home?

Andy

On Apr 26, 3:13*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. *Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. *While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. *Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? *I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

In short. No. I have kept pretty accurate records since I got my
glider, but it was 24 years old, with 5 previous owners when I got it.

On Apr 26, 3:13*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. *Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. *While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. *Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? *I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

Does sleeping in it and dreaming about a 2200 km flight count?

On Apr 26, 5:13*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. *Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. *While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. *Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? *I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

Gliders are no different than F-4s, it's all up to the length of the
pilot's pencil...

Kirk
(who once logged a .3 flight in a F-4 that wasn't an IFE - and it
included the 5 minutes of taxi time!)

Kirk
(who once logged a .3 flight in a F-4 that wasn't an IFE - and it
included the 5 minutes of taxi time!)

Okay, there's got to be a story in that! Pardon my lack of acronym-
sense, but what is "IFE" ? (I'm thinking something Failure of
Engine).

-John
(who once crashed a simulated CF-100)

On Apr 27, 10:51*am, jsbrake wrote:
Kirk
(who once logged a .3 flight in a F-4 that wasn't an IFE - and it
included the 5 minutes of taxi time!)

Okay, there's got to be a story in that! *Pardon my lack of acronym-
sense, but what is "IFE" ? *(I'm thinking something Failure of
Engine).

-John
(who once crashed a simulated CF-100)

In Flight Emergency

On 4/26/2011 4:13 PM, Walt Connelly wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? I cant think of one.

Walt

A couple of thoughts...

- My understanding of 'German glass' (the glider world 'certification
pioneers') is that early (Glasflugel & Schleicher & probably others)
pre-carbon-ed airframes were LBA-overseen-tested to 18,000 hours, then
(originally) certified to 1/6 of that, or the 'magic' 3,000 hours you'll
sooner or later encounter in the glider world. As airframes/types reached
3,000 hours, additional certification depended upon them passing detailed
inspections with the results forwarded/blessed by the LBA in 3,000 hour
increments. I believe some airframes have now been certified up to 12,000
hours (Twin Grobs? LS-4's?). It'd be great if knowledgeable Europeans will see
fit to chime in here...

- 'Pure glass' gliders are necessarily 'overstrong' (i.e. designed to
stiffness, rather than strength criteria [the latter being typical of aluminum
and wood gliders and airplanes]), in order to demonstrate 'usefully high'
flutter-free useable airspeeds.

- I'm unaware of any evidence of fatigue-related aging issues in any
first-generation glass ships' composites. (The metal bits are a different
story, of course...)

Based on the above, my conclusion is potential owners of 1st-generation glass
gliders have little to fret about in ship-life terms, at least of the plastic
bits, regardless of whether one is purchasing from an apparent 'squirrel' or
from Diogenes' sought-after human.

Regards,
Bob W.

I had one of those once; urinated on my 'chute. Spoilered in from
14,500msl to save it.

At 17:41 27 April 2011, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Apr 27, 10:51=A0am, jsbrake wrote:
Kirk
(who once logged a .3 flight in a F-4 that wasn't an IFE - and it
included the 5 minutes of taxi time!)

Okay, there's got to be a story in that! =A0Pardon my lack of
acronym-
sense, but what is "IFE" ? =A0(I'm thinking something Failure of
Engine).

-John
(who once crashed a simulated CF-100)

In Flight Emergency