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Launch Order



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 31st 11, 06:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,260
Default Launch Order

First come, first served - if you are ready - seems to work best.

At commercial sites I have worked and flown at, launching a grid of XC
(or local racers) at a specified time also works - the commercial
instructors and students get a midday break, and the private owners
get a quick launch.

My club, unfortunately, uses a "first to sign up on the towsheet gets
priority" system that drives me crazy - since you can show up early,
move gliders out, clean canopies, help a newby, but forget to sign up
until late morning - then when you push out your glider get told "wait
in line - Joe Blow is in front of you" even though good old Joe just
showed up, signed up, went to breakfast, and is still trying to figure
out how to open his canopy.

Seriously, the tow lines fortunately (or unfortunately) are rarely
long enough to cause a problem, but the system is fundamentally
flawed.

Of course, this is the same club where the first person out will place
his glider at the very back edge of the runway (gotta have every foot
available, you know...), thereby preventing anyone else from gridding
behind him.

As we all know, the rate of change in glider club procedures can be
glacial....

Kirk
66
  #12  
Old May 31st 11, 06:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
vaughn[_3_]
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Posts: 153
Default Launch Order


"bildan" wrote in message
...
As a one-time instructor/ride pilot, I've seen it happen many times.
The happiest first-time customers were those who got the early and
late flights.


True. Much of this can be helped by proper diplomacy and by managing
expectations from the start. I used to tell ride customers that soaring is
supposed to be a fun, relaxing experience, not something regulated by a clock.
My favorite line: "When you come to a gliderport, don't have anything more
accurate than a calendar strapped to your wrist".

Same goes for students:. Remind them that they only pay for time in the air,
but there is much to be learned by watching (and assisting) on the ground.

Vaughn


  #13  
Old June 1st 11, 01:40 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

[quote=Dan Marotta;772671]Glassholes??? It's not the construction of the glider that makes the
personality of the pilot...



OBTW, when I pull my glider out to fly, it's made of glass...


"Walt Connelly" wrote in message
...[color=blue][i]

I agree, it's not the construction of the glider that makes the personality of the pilot, but I have observed that to at least to some degree, those with the more economical ships have the best attitudes. "Glasshole" was not a term I coined.

The operational standards are set by the owner and they make sense to me. What I am trying to do is come up with a system that will be equitable and reasonable and perhaps present it them. Just because you have pulled out and parked next to the runway and left your glider for a couple of hours does not give you special dispensation. Many students and renters drive for hours to get to the glider port. They have a reasonable expectation of flying at a certain time. I agree with the comments about rides being done in the calmer air but a $120 to $160 dollar ride produces more revenue than a 200 foot tow.... I don't remember a rider even at mid-day not returning with a big smile, (okay, one puked but that's gonna happen) I understand the owners position.

Walt
  #14  
Old June 1st 11, 01:48 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

I could not agree more about reminding students that much is to be learned by watching and assisting on the ground. While I was taking lessons I would show up early, bring my books, hang out at the launch line and study, chase rope, hook up, watch, listen and learn. Can you believe that there are people with licenses who can't properly hook up a Schweizer?

The Japanese students who come here to learn to fly bring a different work ethic than the American students. It's observable to a high degree...they work as a team. We can learn a lot by watching them.

Walt
  #15  
Old June 1st 11, 01:58 PM
Walt Connelly Walt Connelly is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 365
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirk.stant View Post
First come, first served - if you are ready - seems to work best.



My club, unfortunately, uses a "first to sign up on the towsheet gets
priority" system that drives me crazy - since you can show up early,
move gliders out, clean canopies, help a newby, but forget to sign up
until late morning - then when you push out your glider get told "wait
in line - Joe Blow is in front of you" even though good old Joe just
showed up, signed up, went to breakfast, and is still trying to figure
out how to open his canopy.

Seriously, the tow lines fortunately (or unfortunately) are rarely
long enough to cause a problem, but the system is fundamentally
flawed.

Of course, this is the same club where the first person out will place
his glider at the very back edge of the runway (gotta have every foot
available, you know...), thereby preventing anyone else from gridding
behind him.

As we all know, the rate of change in glider club procedures can be
glacial....

Kirk
66
Some people just ain't got no bringing up. There will always be the helpful, thoughtful types and then those who show up, sign up and go to breakfast. People talk about growing this sport, making it flourish but their attitudes and actions don't follow suit.

Placing your glider at the back edge of the runway might be appropriate in certain circumstances..... say a DG 1000 on a hot day..... otherwise.

Walt
  #16  
Old June 1st 11, 07:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Beckman[_2_]
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Posts: 186
Default Launch Order

At 22:17 30 May 2011, John Cochrane wrote:

The owner of the tug obviously wants to keep his investment in gliders
and instructors working. Your post says this is is a commercial
operation, not a club or a charity, so the answer seems clear:
Business class. If you, mr. private glider, want a tow Right Now,
thereby idling my investment in a training glider, instructor, and
lowering my throughput of students, go for it, that will be $80. If
you want to pay $40, wait until the students rentals and rides are
done. Now everybody's happy.


Well, you can't ever make everybody happy. But this is
certainly a wonderful solution, and at least answers
everybody's objections. (And you know what - there
would be a certain number of folks willing to pay the $80.)

Jim Beckman


  #17  
Old June 1st 11, 07:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim Beckman[_2_]
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Posts: 186
Default Launch Order

At 16:18 31 May 2011, Martin Gregorie wrote:

Where I fly, also UK, at busy times we run two winch queues: one for
training and trial flights in two seaters and the other for single

seaters

and private two-place gliders. Both queues operate on a first-come, first


served basis. We tried using two winches but found little benefit from
that as in practice the main delay is from ab initio and trial flight
briefings: if both queues contain gliders and an instructor is busy
briefing, the single seat line gets launched until he's ready.


Why would a glider that is not ready to launch be in
the launch queue? Seems odd to me, but hey, I'm from
the Colonies, so I think simple thoughts.

Jim Beckman


  #18  
Old June 1st 11, 09:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Launch Order

On Wed, 01 Jun 2011 18:27:22 +0000, Jim Beckman wrote:

Why would a glider that is not ready to launch be in the launch queue?

Some instructors seem to like briefing in the launch queue no matter what
the CFI says about the practise, though launch line delays are a more
common problem with trial flights: some pax just take a lot of time to
get into the glider, get strapped in and be ready to go, particularly if
you need ballast weights and/or need to put cushions or the ASK21
adjustable backrest into the glider.

The above palaver tends to happen near the front of the queue because we
tend not to put bodies into aircraft until they're number 2 or 3 in the
winch queue. Unlike an aero tow queue, its more important to keep moving
gliders forward as those in front of them launch. Our closest winch queue
is no more that 20-30m out from the launch point bus and we won't launch
a glider that isn't level with the front of the bus. This prevents a wing-
drop and the resultant swing and release from sling-shotting the glider
into the bus or any people standing by it.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
 




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