Getting a little sick of it all

(PaulaJay1) writes:

In article SJx1c.37294$PR3.745133@attbi_s03, "Robert Bates"
writes:

I agree with Jay. Anyone who won't let a mechanic look at it is hiding
something.

Not always, it's a two way street. Seven years ago when I bought my plane, the
owner flew it to my airport and my A&P did the pre-buy. Owner kept saying "I
should just go back home. I don't want to sell this plane" and I kept thinking
"Doesn't matter much what Tom finds, I want this plane." Well, someone
protects those in love, the plane passed, and all has gone well for the last
seven years.

However, now as an owner, I can see both sides. What if my A&P and I had been
dishonest? The A&P grounds the plane and my negotiating position sure has
improved. What if the inspection damaged something? You who have sold a
plane, (this one is my first) what are your comments. Can you have a pre-buy
by an A&P and not give him the option to ground the plane?

I'd ask the buyer to come with his mechanic to my hangar. He can ground
the plane all he wants, if the mechanic is just being a jerk, I'll get my
mechanic to undo the paperwork death.

A friend of mine was selling his Mooney, and flew it to the buyer's
choice of mechanic. It passed, but for reasons I don't recall, my
friend flew back home in the Mooney. A couple of days later, he takes
it to his shop for an oil change, and the mechanic there points out
how the landing gear doors had been misrigged during the prepurchase
inspection.

All ended well, but it's something I've been thinking about ever since.

-jav

These sound like people you don't want to be buying aircraft from, for
many reasons. I think you treated the guy you talked to last night with
exactly what he deserved and was asking for.

The whole aviation industry isn't quite like this, but, well, I consider
it similar to buying a used car. Only with airplanes, the financial
stakes are much higher, so the low-lifes are that much lower. The state
of the economy in the past few years is a big contributor---people are
short on money, and for many of them their planes end up being short on
attention as a result.

That being said, don't worry, and don't get impatient. Patience is the
strongest thing in your arsenal. I got impatient and ended up buying a
plane last year that was grossly misrepresented, and it dumped me on its
nose on landing a few days later, cost me 1/3 again the value of the
plane, and was down for 8 months. DON'T get impatient---you are going
about this the right way, and you are not alone.

PaulaJay1 wrote:

Can you have a pre-buy
by an A&P and not give him the option to ground the plane?

An A&P cannot ground an aircraft.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

"Dan Luke" wrote
Really? I thought that 50-60 hours per year would be more like
"average."

I fly about 120 hr/yr and still don't consider myself "highly active."

The average private airplane flies 26 hours a year.

Michael

Don Tuite wrote
Complicated airplanes you can't afford to make a mistake on, it's
probably a different story.

If you can't afford to make a mistake, you can't afford the airplane.
Period. These airplanes are old. No prebuy will catch everything
that hasn't broken yet but is about to.

Michael

SD sdatverizondot.net@ wrote:

I don't think it is just the aviation industry, I think it is a new
mentality that we are seeing.

On the other hand, today I took a used car for a pre-purchase
inspection. Owner had no trouble with it. A matter of fact, he was out
of town. Said the key was above the visor, take it any time and let
him know how we make out.



Michael Nickolas
www.studionineproductions.com

"Michael" wrote:
The average private airplane flies 26 hours a year.

That surprises me.

Two hours/month; seems hardly worth the bother.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

I agree with a lot of the feedback you'be been getting but also consider
something else -- in your postings here I've kinda got the impression of
you as someone who is looking for a great bargain. Maybe if you looked
at more planes that were not "cheap" compared to their peers you'd find
fewer with things to hide and therefore difficult sellers.

MRQB wrote:

I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Is it just me or is the whole aviation industry like this I have not found 1
airplane yet that some one was not hiding something or trying to hide. This
last airplane that I looked at was great kinda sounded to good to be true,
seller lost job and needed money the logs looked like they were in order had
2 missing years but had a good explanation and a NTSB search showed no
accident history. I told him that id have an A&P come over tomorrow and do a
pre buy and review his logs again. He said no you can have my mechanic do
your pre buy as no inspection plates are coming off with out my mechanic
taking them off. I told him that you can have your mechanic do all the
wrenching but I need my mechanic look it over before I buy. He refused to
let me do a pre buy so I walked away and went home.

He called me up later in the evening and said to tell him now if I wanted it
or not and real persistent that I give him an answer right now, I told him
that I am really interested and as I told him earlier today I need to do a
pre buy first before I can make that decision. He said flat out no pre buy
from an independent A&P and his reasoning were that an independent A & P did
not know his airplane "Cessna 172" and if the independent A & P found
something wrong (Airworthy Issue) that he would have to fix it before he
could fly it again and he did not have the money to do that if I did not buy
the airplane. If I cannot make my own decisions mabye I should let him talk
to the woman of the house and let her make it. I said sorry and immediately
hung up the phone!

This guy had the nerve to call me back telling me that I was rude for
hanging up on him and if you cannot tell what a good deal is with your own
eyes then I you will never own a airplane. I hung up on him and entered his
phone # in to my call rejection.

Yes the deal seemed like a good deal almost to good to be true 1976 172
8,000TT 700 SFRM $28,000 Firm his log books and AD lists were the best I
have seen to date very organized Annual was due at the end of the month. No
telling what problems this guy was trying to hide with this airplane.

What is with some of these people they seem worse then car dealers.

Here is funny one read below first thing that tripped mu bull**** indicator
was when he said "I cannot recall" well if they have compleate logs it
should be a simple yes or no answer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

The airframe book refers to a 337 but we do not have it. I could get a copy
from the feds in Ok City, but would take a little while. Do you want one?

Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "MRQB"
To: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:57 AM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152



Do you have a 337 on that repair.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
To: "TAC"
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152



Logs indicate firewall repair in 1982. Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "TAC"
To: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152



March 05, 1982 can you look that up in the logs for me.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152



Forgot to tell you... all logs, I cannot recall any major damage.

Pete

----- Original Message -----
From: "Trade-A-Plane Web Site"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152



A Trade-A-Plane web user wishes to inquire about your ad.

This message is from:

Please send all the spec's thank you.

Dose it have all the logs and is there any damage history?

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote:
He will not sell the house in the end because he will keep
finding ways to sabotage the deal...

My neighbor down on the corner has had his house "for sale by owner"
six times in the last ten years. I think it must be his hobby.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

You do get to meet a lot of people that way.

Mike Z

"Dan Luke" wrote in message ...
"Dennis O'Connor" wrote:
He will not sell the house in the end because he will keep
finding ways to sabotage the deal...

My neighbor down on the corner has had his house "for sale by owner"
six times in the last ten years. I think it must be his hobby.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)