I give up, after many, many years!

"Jay Honeck" wrote in
news:_GXWj.164990$yE1.44525@attbi_s21:

That's not as blatant or easily recognizable as "impolite" as calling
someone a "butthead", but it is impolite just the same, albeit more
cleverly so.

Agree 100%. But in that regard, this sort of subtle "impoliteness"
is de rigueur amongst the population in general nowadays. At least
its clever, which is more than you can say about the other trolls
here.

Ignorance is not necessarily abated by becoming a certificated pilot.
(Witness the number of pilots who responded negatively to my flying to
Florida VFR using on-board XM weather.)


Good god you're a moron.




Bertie

On 2008-05-15, Dan Luke wrote:
"Morgans" wrote:
RESIST THE URGE TO PARTICIPATE in ANY thread that has his participation.
Oh, fer chrissakes, Jim: I didn't even *know* who started the thread.

Me either. I didn't jump into the pilot watch thread (with what I thought
was a relevant, reasonable, on-topic message) until well after it had been
started, and by the time I did, all trace of participation by MX had
disappeared. He's in my kill file, so I didn't see his original message in
the first place.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 2 June)

Jay Honeck wrote:
There have been times, believe me, where we can get some
frustrated. If he isn't as bad as I made out, I apologize. But here's
an example of a reply from him about a year ago:

Viperdoc writes:
Hey Anthony you butthead- your basic premise is incorrect:

MX's reply snipped

Yep, MX was out of line with his facts -- but in the face of a personal
attack like that ("you butthead"?), you've got to be fairly impressed
with his calm response. Some of the so-called pilots here would have
immediately defaulted to cuss words and insults.

MX is a lot of things -- impolite isn't one of them.


Jay you are obviously not reading many of Anthony's posts. As someone
mentioned above he isn't impolite to individuals very often he insults
huge groups of people.

And for the record the "you butthead" comment made by Viperdoc happened
when Anthony was being a butthead. Though I might have used stronger
language.

On May 14, 9:23*pm, Clark wrote:
Learn to fly and then come back and tell everyone how much you really knew
before actually flying the plane.

Alternatively: talk to instructors about the students who "studied" on a
simulator before learning to fly. It's rather entertaining to hear about
folks who can tune a radio and fly the airways but they can't reliably find a
runway much less land on it. Hell, on my practical test the only VOR work I
had to do was give a simple heading to an airport. The DPE was much more
concerned about the practical operation of the aircraft rather than simple
radio nav skills.

In other words, studying a subject academically is much different than
actually participating in that subject physically and mentally.

Certainly you will agree that, all things being equal, it is good to
learn as much as one can on the ground before getting into the cockpit?
There is no substitute for manual practice, but manual practice is
going to happen anyway. Why wait until getting into the cockpit
before learning things that can be learned on the ground?

And why do all these flight schols have simulators?

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Unlike the other posters on this NG, you have been to my hangar, shared
some stories, and met my family. I have flown to visit you on several
different occasions as well, and stayed at your business. If you think of
me as a bad person, so be it- I simply like to think that I respond to
Anthony with the same respect that he shows the rest of us that honestly
try to answer his questions.

This isn't about you, Doc, this is about MX. The example (not mine) was
merely one that shows (IMHO) that MX isn't rude and doesn't resort to
personal attacks, unlike the other major trolls in this group.

I have great respect for you and your family, and sincerely hope that our
friendship isn't affected by something so stupid as arguing about which of
our resident trolls is worse!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On May 15, 7:17 pm, Le Chaud Lapin wrote:

Certainly you will agree that, all things being equal, it is good to
learn as much as one can on the ground before getting into the cockpit?
There is no substitute for manual practice, but manual practice is
going to happen anyway. Why wait until getting into the cockpit
before learning things that can be learned on the ground?

And why do all these flight schols have simulators?

There's a right way and several wrong ways to do just about
anything. Would you like to go under the knife wielded by a surgeon
who learned his craft on a surgery simulator? Ride in a bus driven by
a guy who learned to drive on a desktop sim?
We sometimes get students who have lots of sim time. MSFS
time. Those students can have a lot of bad habits to break, and many
things to learn over again the right way. Engine operation, various
maneuvers, and instrument scans are just a few of the problem areas.
The sim, despite what some claim, is not very accurate. Some
proponents of the sim try to tell us that the airplane must be wrong
if it isn't the same as the sim! Further, there are no physical
sensations, and those alone can confuse the experienced simmer when he
gets into the real thing. Scares some of them.
Instructors are taught, as part of their training, the Seven
Learning Factors. The second of those is Primacy, which says that
first impressions, things seen first, are the longest-lasting, and so
they had better be right the first time. A guy fooling with a sim on
his own is not likely to get things right the first time, maybe never,
and is busy developing a handicap. See the Learning factors he
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/ge...tI/Factors.htm

We use sims in flight training. The big difference is that the
student is under the tutelage of an instructor who has spent
considerable time learning things the right way himself, and
understands the importance of the student's learning things properly.
The student already has actual flight time when he sits at the sim and
so understands much more about what he's doing. And why it needs to be
done a certain way. If he doesn't do thing right, he'll not pass the
flight tests and will likely be an incompetent pilot.

Dan

writes:

There's a right way and several wrong ways to do just about
anything. Would you like to go under the knife wielded by a surgeon
who learned his craft on a surgery simulator? Ride in a bus driven by
a guy who learned to drive on a desktop sim?

Ask some professionals if they've ever used simulation, and you may be
surprised. It isn't limited to pilot training.

We use sims in flight training. The big difference is that the
student is under the tutelage of an instructor who has spent
considerable time learning things the right way himself, and
understands the importance of the student's learning things properly.
The student already has actual flight time when he sits at the sim and
so understands much more about what he's doing. And why it needs to be
done a certain way. If he doesn't do thing right, he'll not pass the
flight tests and will likely be an incompetent pilot.

Do you have test performance figures and accident rates for pilots who had
used a desktop simulator vs. those who had not, prior to in-aircraft training?

Clark writes:

Second, don't pretend to know what you need learn before getting in an
airplane. As I said before, talk to flight instructors and trust their
guidance in the matter. The instructors I know say that simulation before
flying is a detriment. Why would you assume to know better?????

An instructor is one person. Why listen to just one person when you can
consult a wealth of literature written by experts? If all the experts say one
thing, and the instructor says another, in all probability the instructor is
wrong.

It's important to remain objective. Trust if you must, but verify.

Simulators have a place but it is not in pre-flight training. Here's a
simple example: another student and I started our training at the same
time. He'd been through a university instrument training course and I was
off the street. I took my private pilot check ride two weeks after he
soloed. We had the same instructor and flew about the same number of hours
per week. My instructor mentioned that the other guy spent a long time
learning to look out the window rather than at the gauges.

So what's the connection with simulation?

Nomen Nescio writes:

Who are all these "experts" that you keep mentioning?

The ones who write aviation books for the FAA, NASA, etc.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Nomen Nescio writes:

Who are all these "experts" that you keep mentioning?

The ones who write aviation books for the FAA, NASA, etc.

Some of these people participate in this forum. A few years ago you didn't
hesitate to tell them they didn't know what they were talking about. Now
you refer to them as "experts".

YOU DON'T KNOW **** FROM SHINOLA!