I give up, after many, many years!

Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

In that case the sensation may be the only indication of an uncoordinated
turn available.

If you have neither instruments nor visual references to depend on, you're in
serious trouble, no matter what the magic sensations to which you've become
mystically attuned as a pilot.

There is no visual reference that will tell you whether or not you are
coordinated in a turn and there is nothing magical or mystical to the
sensation once you've felt it.

Obviously you are totally unable to relate.

In VFR you are supposed to be looking out the window. In that case the
sensation is your only indicator of an uncoordinated turn.

You're permitted to look at instruments even under VFR.

True but irrelevant.

In VFR you are much safer looking out the window than staring at the
instruments like a simmer, especially in a turn.
`
If your are doing something other than looking out the window or
glancing at the instruments, the sensation still tells you that you
are in an uncoordinated turn.

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. If you really need to know, you have an
instrument that will tell you.

Wrong.

It does.

A real pilot in a real airplane does not need a turn and bank indicator
to make a coordinated turn.

So pilots wimpy and cowardly enough to resort to instruments are not Real
Pilots, eh? Where have I seen mention of this attitude in the literature?

Point totally, absolutely, and completely missed.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Benjamin Dover writes:

Unless you have autoland, it is.

You can land visually without sensations, particularly if you have instruments
as well.

And landing isn't the only use for sensations.

I'm very puzzled by this preoccupation with sensations. I can only assume
that it has much to do with the type of pilots who are being most vocal here.

That's because all your simming leaves you totally unable to relate.


--
Jim Pennino

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Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Benjamin Dover writes:

What do you call stall buffet?

A sensation that you might feel in some aircraft under some
circumstances when approaching a stall.

It is also an all-you-can-eat meal in a stable.

That's right. I forgot that gourmet dining to you is picking through the
trash bin at McDonalds and then flavoring what you find by sucking the
farts out if bicycle seats.
It's something you sense. Any pilot knows what it is.

Even some non-pilots know what is is. So what?


You don't have the foggiest idea. You don't know **** from shinola about
flying.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Benjamin Dover writes:

Unless you have autoland, it is.

You can land visually without sensations, particularly if you have
instruments as well.

And landing isn't the only use for sensations.

I'm very puzzled by this preoccupation with sensations. I can only
assume that it has much to do with the type of pilots who are being
most vocal here.


BULL ****. You land by "the seat of your pants". You don't have the
foggiest idea of what that means and why. You just jerk yourself off
playing MSFS and have deluded yourself into believing you're a pilot. You
don't know **** from shinola about flying. You're just a fraud, nothing
but fecal matter wired to a keyboard.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Benjamin Dover writes:

You're recent crash of a 172 in Colorodo, moron.

I was not in IMC.

The sensations might not tell you which way something is
happening, but they tell you something is happening.

What do the leans tell you is happening?

You then snap your attention from whatever you're doing (like
reading charts) and get them back on the instuments to see what
exactly is happening.

In IMC, you maintain an instrument scan that does not require you to
depend on sensations to alert you to changes.


You don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about. You just
regurgitate words you've read, but have zero understanding of what they
mean or if you are even using them in the proper context.

There are some sensations you need to learn how to ignore. Others you need
to feel and they provide valuable information to help you. Only a dumb ass
simmer who has never experienced any of them would so blindly and stupidly
dismiss all sensaions and worthless.

You've been making the same stupid ass erroneous claims every since you
came over to this newsgroup.

You don't fly. You never will fly. You're too ****ing stupid to learn to
fly.

All you do is jerk off while playing a game. You don't know **** from
shinola and you don't want to learn. You're a moron, Anthony. A totally
useless waste of a human being. No wonder you're such a failure in life.

There has to be something that a simulator can offer that does not
require the instructor to be present.

Much depends on the level of your simulator. If you have something like our
Penguin (see it he http://www.alexisparkinn.com/flight_simulator.htm )
you can learn a lot. If you're flying a mouse in front of your laptop, not
so much.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Nomen Nescio wrote in
:

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From:

That's because all your simming leaves you totally unable to relate.

Give it up, Jim.
He's retarded.

Last Fall, I went to a Corporate Anniversary party at the Bradley Air
Museum. One guy brought his 12 yo son, who was just starting flying
lessons and had logged 5 hours of instruction. When he heard I was a
pilot, he followed my wife and I around the museum for an hour talking
about flying. The kid was very knowledgable about aviation. Way beyond
MX. He'd played with MSFS for many years before taking his first
lesson, so I asked him if he thought it helped.
To summarize his 10 minute answer:
"I knew how the instruments and radio worked.
A real C150 is tricky to start.
They bounce around a lot.
The rudder pedals felt weird and worked very different.
My instructor kept telling me to look out the window (surprise!)
Landing is hard. Crosswinds are even harder.
(and most important)
Now that I'm getting the FEEL of the plane, I'm doing much better."

Bottom line
A 12 yo with 5 hours gets it.

A fat, numb ass, delusional, antisocial, retarded, middle aged loser,
who never leaves his room, will never get it.

I guess "Bertie" has the right idea.
Just tell him he's an idiot and be done with it.

He won't believe the correct answer.........
He won't believe he's an idiot.

Saves a lot of typing.
Same result.






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Well said, sir, well said!

gatt writes:

The ones that are ignored are different sensations and typically have to
do with equilibrium and the inner ear. Examples are somatogravic and
coriolis and inversion illusions. If your ass leaves the seat or
compresses into it, however, it's not something you ignore.

Yes, it is, because it is no more reliable than any other sensation.

If you enter a coordinated turn at constant altitude, your buttocks will tell
you that you are climbing ... but you aren't. Your inner ear will tell you
the same thing, and it will be just as wrong.

There aren't many/any RC pilots who haven't catastrophically augured an
RC plane.

Of those who have, how did they manage, without sensation? Indeed, how do
they ever manage on any flight, without sensation?

UAV systems are much more sophisticated than those in the
average single-engine piston airplane, and--I've not flown a UAV so I'm
guessing here--they're not doing things like steep-bank turns or
short-field approaches.

But aviation is more than single-engine piston airplanes ... much more.

Those are different sensations and you have to know the difference and
also what to reject or ignore. VFR pilots are subject to similar but
different sensations such as visual autokinesis, reversal of motion and
black hole approaches.

Can you fly safely with your eyes closed, relying only on sensations, and
selectively ignoring or accepting the sensations you feel?

You can have those sensations while remaining perfectly still in normal
flight. When your ass is sliding toward the inside or outside of a
turn, or getting compressed into the seat or lifted into the lap belt,
those are not illusions.

But they may not be what you think they are, either.

What people are asserting here is 180 degrees different from what I read in
all the literature. You cannot fly by the seat of your pants. You can't fly
based on sensations. They are too unreliable. Conversely, you can fly
without sensations, as long as you have visual and/or instrument information.

writes:

There is no visual reference that will tell you whether or not you are
coordinated in a turn and there is nothing magical or mystical to the
sensation once you've felt it.

Well, close your eyes and make the turn, and see where you end up.

True but irrelevant.

On the contrary, it's important. Can you really be sure that your turn is
perfectly coordinated and that you are holding altitude without ever looking
at the instruments? How do you know how far you've turned? How do you tell
the difference between an uncoordinated turn and being pushed by the wind?

In VFR you are much safer looking out the window than staring at the
instruments like a simmer, especially in a turn.

In VFR you are safest if you do both. And you can look out the window in a
sim, too.

Wrong.

How do you know the difference between a coordinated turn and, say, an
uncoordinated turn that encounters wind that moves the aircraft? If you
depend on sensation alone, an updraft or downdraft might make you think that
an uncoordinated turn is level and coordinated, when in fact it is
uncoordinated and you are climbing or descending.

Nomen Nescio writes:

If you can't understand, I suggest you try this.
Walk up to the top of your building, stand with your toes hanging off the ledge,
close your eyes, and just stand there for a few minutes.
If you fall to your death.......you're right.
If you survive. Everyone else is right.

Show me.