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Russia joins France and Germany
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message om... http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=18346&lang=en TASHKENT - Russia added its skeptical voice Friday to those of France and Germany by saying that a UN resolution proposed by Washington to set up a multinational force in Iraq needed a lot more work. "The US draft is moving toward principles (supported by Russia) but for them to be outlined (in the resolution) in full, the document needs very serious work," Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov told reporters. "This initiative deserves attention because the draft resolution in part reflects principles that Russia had been repeatedly fighting for," Russia's top diplomat added while attending a meeting of regional foreign ministers in the Uzbek capital. France and Germany -- nations that along with Russia bitterly opposed the US-led war -- have already expressed opposition to the new resolution and the Kremlin said French President Jacques Chirac called his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin on Friday to discuss the latest standoff with Washington. The first consultations on the draft were due to begin Friday in New York. The draft US resolution does not explicitly place the United States in charge of the force. But it says the United States would report to the Security Council on efforts undertaken by the international contingent. The resolution also gives the United Nations a role in deciding a timetable for a democratic government to be established. Russia -- which has sought a central role for the United Nations in Iraq -- has veto power on the world-governing body as a permanent UN Security Council member. So does China, whose Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing was more cautious in his criticism of the US plan at the Tashkent talks Friday. "Iraq needs a government which will have the support of all the Iraqi people and Iraq's neighbors. The situation in Iraq needs to be returned to the framework of the United Nations." China has for the large part tried to keep out of the Iraqi dispute and preserve its relations with both the peace and war camps. The Chinese foreign ministry released a separate statement saying Beijing was "conscientiously studying" the new draft and was taking a "constructive attitude ... and hopes that all sides can reach a consensus as soon as possible." Moscow is also taking steps to repair any damage done by Iraq to its US relations ahead of this month's Camp David summit between US President George W. Bush and Putin. Putin had said earlier that Moscow saw nothing negative in an international force in Iraq under US command. russian forces under US command? you must hate the very thought eh michael? And Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov hinted for the first time Thursday that Russia may send peacekeepers to Iraq in response to Washington's pleas for additional international help. But the Russian foreign minister on Friday appeared to quash such suggestions by saying that Russia's participation was "not realistically being examined." he likes to keep everyone guessing. And he unleashed unexpected criticism of Washington's handling of the daily violence raging in occupied Iraq. "I'm surprised that several of Washington's representatives say that in Iraq the situation is getting better and better -- but day by day the situation gets worse and worse and requires the help of the international community," the foreign minister said. why is he surprised? it is similar to what the russian govt. did for years in chechnya. |
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Once again Michael proves himself a complete idiot. Putin is a pragmatist. He will side with Germany and France when he thinks he can score a few points and he will side with America when he thinks he can score a few points. Ultimately, befriending America's economy is far more important to Putin and Russia than the economies of France and Germany. Shroeder are Chirac are sufferring under delusions of grandeur if they think Putin is squarely on their side. |
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"Aida Lott" wrote in message et... Once again Michael proves himself a complete idiot. Putin is a pragmatist. He will side with Germany and France when he thinks he can score a few points and he will side with America when he thinks he can score a few points. Ultimately, befriending America's economy is far more important to Putin and Russia than the economies of France and Germany. Shroeder are Chirac are sufferring under delusions of grandeur if they think Putin is squarely on their side. Putin wants his $8 billion. |
#4
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"Aida Lott" wrote in message . net...
Once again Michael proves himself a complete idiot. Not really. Michael is right. Putin is a pragmatist. He will side with Germany and France when he thinks he can score a few points and he will side with America when he thinks he can score a few points. Ultimately, befriending America's economy is far more important to Putin and Russia than the economies of France and Germany. Not at all. Trade between Russia and US is negligible while with Europe, especially Germany, it is substantial. The US don't participate in any economic development plans while Germany and France do. It is funny to read this because in reality as far as Russia is concerned, the US may not exist at all. There is no real leverage whatsoever. All external dependencies are in the EU, with Germany being the biggest partner. Shroeder are Chirac are sufferring under delusions of grandeur if they think Putin is squarely on their side. Putin is squarely on his own side. |
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"captain!" wrote in message ...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message om... http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=18346&lang=en Moscow is also taking steps to repair any damage done by Iraq to its US relations ahead of this month's Camp David summit between US President George W. Bush and Putin. Putin had said earlier that Moscow saw nothing negative in an international force in Iraq under US command. russian forces under US command? Why not? Russian forces were under operative US command in Bosnia and Kosovo. It does not matter in fact. Everybody understand that those forces if needed will be out of US command in a one second. you must hate the very thought eh michael? Not at all. I do not base my opnions on hate etc. Although I remember about true interests of my country. I lived for three years near US 4-th corp HQ in Germany and knew some of its officers. generally good guys. In my personal view US military is best part of US society. It is absolutely no problem to be under their command, providing of course it does goes well with our own interests, which is a very different question. And Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov hinted for the first time Thursday that Russia may send peacekeepers to Iraq in response to Washington's pleas for additional international help. But the Russian foreign minister on Friday appeared to quash such suggestions by saying that Russia's participation was "not realistically being examined." he likes to keep everyone guessing. His job is to use words carefully. And he unleashed unexpected criticism of Washington's handling of the daily violence raging in occupied Iraq. "I'm surprised that several of Washington's representatives say that in Iraq the situation is getting better and better -- but day by day the situation gets worse and worse and requires the help of the international community," the foreign minister said. why is he surprised? Because it is obvious lie I guess. it is similar to what the russian govt. did for years in chechnya. it is not true. 90% of chechens voted to be normal part of russia in a recent referendum. Although difficult there is a political solution for chechenya as a part of russia. What we see now is final stages of war actions in that area. Can you say the same for US in Iraq? Money does not solve all problems, Captain. Never did. Michael |
#6
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"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message om... "captain!" wrote in message ... "Michael Petukhov" wrote in message om... http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=18346&lang=en Moscow is also taking steps to repair any damage done by Iraq to its US relations ahead of this month's Camp David summit between US President George W. Bush and Putin. Putin had said earlier that Moscow saw nothing negative in an international force in Iraq under US command. russian forces under US command? Why not? Russian forces were under operative US command in Bosnia and Kosovo. It does not matter in fact. Everybody understand that those forces if needed will be out of US command in a one second. you must hate the very thought eh michael? Not at all. I do not base my opnions on hate etc. Although I remember about true interests of my country. I lived for three years near US 4-th corp HQ in Germany and knew some of its officers. generally good guys. In my personal view US military is best part of US society. It is absolutely no problem to be under their command, providing of course it does goes well with our own interests, which is a very different question. And Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov hinted for the first time Thursday that Russia may send peacekeepers to Iraq in response to Washington's pleas for additional international help. But the Russian foreign minister on Friday appeared to quash such suggestions by saying that Russia's participation was "not realistically being examined." he likes to keep everyone guessing. His job is to use words carefully. And he unleashed unexpected criticism of Washington's handling of the daily violence raging in occupied Iraq. "I'm surprised that several of Washington's representatives say that in Iraq the situation is getting better and better -- but day by day the situation gets worse and worse and requires the help of the international community," the foreign minister said. why is he surprised? Because it is obvious lie I guess. it is similar to what the russian govt. did for years in chechnya. it is not true. 90% of chechens voted to be normal part of russia in a recent referendum. Although difficult there is a political solution for chechenya as a part of russia. What we see now is final stages of war actions in that area. Can you say the same for US in Iraq? Money does not solve all problems, Captain. Never did. Michael i was not refering to the present time. what about when the war was still young?the russian govt. routinely tried to make the situation seem better than it was, just like the americans are now, and just like every country does. |
#7
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"captain!" wrote in message a...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message it is not true. 90% of chechens voted to be normal part of russia in a recent referendum. Although difficult there is a political solution for chechenya as a part of russia. What we see now is final stages of war actions in that area. Can you say the same for US in Iraq? Money does not solve all problems, Captain. Never did. Michael i was not refering to the present time. what about when the war was still young?the russian govt. routinely tried to make the situation seem better than it was, just like the americans are now, and just like every country does. Oh in that sense... Well not only russians and americans. human nature I guess... I just finished reading very fresh book on battle of Kursk with first published german and soviet official military reports before, during and after that final german disaster in east front. Very funny reading. Imagine soviet reports were much much more closer to the reality. while according to german reports all these disasters after disaters were just fine well planed operations with excellent output. The book includes also Soviet and German newspaper papers published in that time on that matters. German materials were just nothing more than **** propaganda. Although soviet press publications also included highly overestimated numbers for German losses but generally the picture of the events was pretty close to real one as we know it now. So it seems there are problems with Stalin standard legend of ****ty propaganda. Michael |
#8
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"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message om... "captain!" wrote in message a... "Michael Petukhov" wrote in message it is not true. 90% of chechens voted to be normal part of russia in a recent referendum. Although difficult there is a political solution for chechenya as a part of russia. What we see now is final stages of war actions in that area. Can you say the same for US in Iraq? Money does not solve all problems, Captain. Never did. Michael i was not refering to the present time. what about when the war was still young?the russian govt. routinely tried to make the situation seem better than it was, just like the americans are now, and just like every country does. Oh in that sense... Well not only russians and americans. the iraqis did it too. it was also funny to see the iraqi defense minister claiming that the americans were nowhere near bagdad while bombs were falling in the background. human nature I guess... I just finished reading very fresh book on battle of Kursk with first published german and soviet official military reports before, during and after that final german disaster in east front. Very funny reading. Imagine soviet reports were much much more closer to the reality. while according to german reports all these disasters after disaters were just fine well planed operations with excellent output. The book includes also Soviet and German newspaper papers published in that time on that matters. German materials were just nothing more than **** propaganda. Although soviet press publications also included highly overestimated numbers for German losses but generally the picture of the events was pretty close to real one as we know it now. So it seems there are problems with Stalin standard legend of ****ty propaganda. are you saying that there was ****ty propaganda about stalin or that stalin had problems with (writing) ****ty propaganda? Michael |
#9
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"captain!" wrote in message .ca...
human nature I guess... I just finished reading very fresh book on battle of Kursk with first published german and soviet official military reports before, during and after that final german disaster in east front. Very funny reading. Imagine soviet reports were much much more closer to the reality. while according to german reports all these disasters after disaters were just fine well planed operations with excellent output. The book includes also Soviet and German newspaper papers published in that time on that matters. German materials were just nothing more than **** propaganda. Although soviet press publications also included highly overestimated numbers for German losses but generally the picture of the events was pretty close to real one as we know it now. So it seems there are problems with Stalin standard legend of ****ty propaganda. are you saying that there was ****ty propaganda about stalin or that stalin had problems with (writing) ****ty propaganda? Difficult to say... Although there is little doubt that in Stalin times soviet press often lied and generaly was used for propaganda. Where it was (and is) not? But clearly the picture was more complex than that simplistic views. Stalin is known to severely purnish those who lied to him. As result of that intentional lie in a official reports in his times was very rare. particularly war time reports of Red Army general stuff are considered to be the most complete and reliable source of data for WWII in east front by many serious reserachers including also western historians. David Glantz for instance noted that very clearly. As for press it lied if there was a good purpose and a direct order but simulteniously if there were no good reason and durect order to lie it could also be quite trueful. So as usual one have to look in details and from different prespectives and sources to find out what was the true. For insance I would like that modern russian press provide the same quality of materials about Chechenya war as it was done by "Red Star" newspaper in 1943 about battle of Kursk. So it is simple lie to say that soviet press lied all the time on all matters. Michael Michael |
#10
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"captain!" wrote in message a...
"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message it is not true. 90% of chechens voted to be normal part of russia in a recent referendum. Although difficult there is a political solution for chechenya as a part of russia. What we see now is final stages of war actions in that area. Can you say the same for US in Iraq? Money does not solve all problems, Captain. Never did. Michael i was not refering to the present time. what about when the war was still young?the russian govt. routinely tried to make the situation seem better than it was, just like the americans are now, and just like every country does. Oh in that sense... Well not only russians and americans. human nature I guess... I just finished reading very fresh book on battle of Kursk with first published german and soviet official military reports before, during and after that final german disaster in east front. Very funny reading. Imagine soviet reports were much much more closer to the reality. while according to german reports all these disasters after disaters were just fine well planed operations with excellent output. The book includes also Soviet and German newspaper papers published in that time on that matters. German materials were just nothing more than **** propaganda. Although soviet press publications also included highly overestimated numbers for German losses but generally the picture of the events was pretty close to real one as we know it now. So it seems there are problems with Stalin standard legend of ****ty propaganda. Michael |
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