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#1
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FLARM
Hi
This summer season in Australia has seen our first use of FLARM anti-collision system for gliders. http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html and http://www.rf-developments.com/page008.html (the local manufacturer for Australia) It would seem that FLARM is becoming very rapidly accepted here in Australia (my club now has all club gliders and tugs and all but a couple of private gliders and tugs) fitted. I know that in continental Europe (where FLARM originated) it is also very widespread. I am interested in how the UK and US gliding fraternity feel about it - and whether FLARM may also be of interest to the micro/ultralight and hang glider fraternity. Robert |
#2
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FLARM
jcarlyle wrote:
I know, ADSB is what is being touted, but price is never mentioned. A $500 dollar FLARM unit in all US aircraft would probably be much cheaper than ADSB. Getting the FAA to sign on to or to back FLARM, though, is another big problem. Current ADS-B transceivers are expensive, right now, because they are currently being produced in small quantities. In fact, a basic ADS-B UAT (Universal Access Transceiver) is essentially no more complex or expensive to implement than a FLARM-like device. The difference is price comes down to the cost of certification and manufacturing to TSO requirements. If a FLARM-like device was mandated by the FAA, it would cost nearly as much as an ADS-B UAT. Perhaps it would be beneficial to approach both SSA and AOPA about FLARM, to try to get them to back it rather than ATSB? There is a minute chance that the SSA could be convinced, but AOPA has already thrown its support to ADS-B... Marc |
#3
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FLARM
Thanks for the info, Marc. Do you know what kind of time frame is
envisioned for us to see a quantity produced ADS-B UATS? And, do you think it will be a low current drain device? -John |
#4
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FLARM
jcarlyle wrote:
know, however, there are frequency band problems in the US as well as legal problems. Indeed, a lot of what I've read indicates that the legal issues have been responsible for stopping FLARM's introduction into the US. No, it's the FLARM people's fear of the US liability issues. Therefore they (the FLARM people) explicitely forbid the use of FLARM in US registered aircraft, in US airspace or with an US citicen on board. Stefan |
#5
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FLARM
Thanks, Stephan - what you said about "fear of liability" is what I
meant by "legal issues". I've done some Googling to learn more about ADS-B. Here's a technology overview link: http://www.flyadsb.com/techoverview/techoverview.htm, and here's something on the avionics installation: http://www.flyadsb.com/downloads/Avi...lers_v0.83.pdf. The bad news for glider pilots is that the Garmin GDL-90 is $8,000 list, the Garmin MX20 is $8,500 list, and the installation weighs almost 24 lbs. Seems to me, if the FAA and AOPA are going forward with ADS-B, that what is needed for gliders is an ADSB-Lite. This wouldn't take advantage of any of the ground based part of ATS-B. Rather, it would just implement the airborne part of ATS-B and would use a simple FLARM-like sector/height LED display. GPS data could come from an existing GPS in the glider, and the transmitter could be deliberately low-powered so it would have only a 5 mile range. Liability is of course the issue. How about naming the device the HAT Alert? HAT stands for Half Assed Traffic, simultaneously indicating that you're only getting some of the airborne traffic picture, and hopefully blocking legal challenges when Joe Doofus ignores the alert and gets mid-aired. Those who are more versed in this field, would you please educate me? I'm sure there's significant problems with this approach I haven't thought of. -John |
#6
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FLARM
Currently in the UK there is little or no interest
in FLARM, I know of no glider that has it fitted and long may it remain so. The cockpit area in gliders is cluttered enough and battery life with current units is unacceptable. At 04:18 05 March 2006, Jcarlyle wrote: Thanks for the info, Marc. Do you know what kind of time frame is envisioned for us to see a quantity produced ADS-B UATS? And, do you think it will be a low current drain device? -John |
#7
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FLARM
Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
I have heard of a suggestion that FLARM should be made mandatory for International Competitions, in which case how will Americans and Canadians compete if they are excluded from using FLARM as stated in the FLARM manual? Perhaps the Australians would be willing to sell us units? -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#8
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FLARM
Perhaps the Australians would be willing to sell us units?
Yeah we could chuck in a few bags of wheat as well. http://rf-developments.com/page008.html |
#9
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FLARM
Mal wrote:
Perhaps the Australians would be willing to sell us units? Yeah we could chuck in a few bags of wheat as well. http://rf-developments.com/page008.html We have quite a bit of wheat already, but maybe a few bottles of Shiraz? The big ones? -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" |
#10
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FLARM
At 16:30 05 March 2006, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
This reply is typical of Don, but is not representative of UK thinking. At a nominal 55mA current drain, this should not significantly affect Battery life. If Don had ever seen a FLARM display he might not utter such ill-informed opinions about cluttering the cockpit. True, there are, AFAIK, no FLARM installations in UK, Sorry Tim, I think that what I said is truly representative of the thinking of UK glider pilots. I have yet to speak to any who have a burning desire to install FLARM, or indeed transponders. I bet you a new FLARM unit that I could find more pilots who don't want FLARM or who don't care than you can find pilots that desire it. I do not have room on my panel for any additional display The reasons for my view may not be representative of UK thinking, but I think you would have to admit that there is general apathy surrounding FLARM in the UK. |
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