CFI oral intel

On 2008-05-29, Vaughn Simon wrote:
Those of you who have never broken the monotony of a x-country by exploring
the phugoid characteristics of your steed have missed a good opportunity to
learn something about your airplane. (Don't forget to see how it differs with
CG.) BTW: Some gliders have rather exciting phugoids.

Oh? Please enlighten me, since I'm going to ahve a sterling opportunity to
do so in the not very distant future.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (ordered 17 March, delivery 10 June)

On May 29, 9:58*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

gatt wrote ;

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country
and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

He's obviously looking at getting an answer that it will be the same
speed, but that's not correct. It probably wouldn;'t be far off it, but
the thrust line and any up or down thrust will play a big part in what
the airplane settles at after the engine dies.

Bertie

Wait, wait, wait...around 110 knots? I must be missing sumthin. Why
would the a/c hit around 110? Uhh..this commercial pilot feels really
stupid but I don't get it. My assumption is; engine quits-airplane
slows down; pilot dies, engine quits-airplane spins in but this seems
to have a bunch of "what-ifs" to it, as well.

Ricky

In rec.aviation.student Ricky wrote:
On May 29, 9:58?am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

gatt wrote ;

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country
and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

He's obviously looking at getting an answer that it will be the same
speed, but that's not correct. It probably wouldn;'t be far off it, but
the thrust line and any up or down thrust will play a big part in what
the airplane settles at after the engine dies.

Bertie

Wait, wait, wait...around 110 knots? I must be missing sumthin. Why
would the a/c hit around 110? Uhh..this commercial pilot feels really
stupid but I don't get it. My assumption is; engine quits-airplane
slows down; pilot dies, engine quits-airplane spins in but this seems
to have a bunch of "what-ifs" to it, as well.

The first two steps you mention are correct but incomplete. The real
sequence goes: engine quits, airplane slows down, airplane begins to
descend, descent causes airplane to speed up, speed decreases the descent,
airplane slows down, airplane descends more, airplane speeds up, etc.

This cycle of increasing and decreasing airspeeds coupled with slower and
faster descents is called a phugoid. It's caused by the airplane
attempting to return to the originally trimmed angle of attack and thus
original airspeed. Depending on the airplane it may continue all the way
to the ground or it may damp out beforehand.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Ricky wrote in news:44a0c8ff-a313-4436-9d19-
:

On May 29, 9:58*am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

gatt wrote ;

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country
and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what
airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

He's obviously looking at getting an answer that it will be the same
speed, but that's not correct. It probably wouldn;'t be far off it,
but
the thrust line and any up or down thrust will play a big part in
what
the airplane settles at after the engine dies.

Bertie

Wait, wait, wait...around 110 knots? I must be missing sumthin. Why
would the a/c hit around 110? Uhh..this commercial pilot feels really
stupid but I don't get it. My assumption is; engine quits-airplane
slows down; pilot dies, engine quits-airplane spins in but this seems
to have a bunch of "what-ifs" to it, as well.

Ricky


Nah, its trimmed for 110 so it will tend to stay there regradless of the
power. It'll start a dive and gravity will keep it going pretty much
that speed. My point was that trim also counteracts some of the thrust
on most airplanes since the thrustline is often a compromise, so while
110 knots woudl be theoretically the right answer, in the event it would
be a bit off that.

Try it , though. Trim hands off and then close the throttle without
touching the stick and the airplane will just dive while retaining
approximately your trimmed speed.



Bertie

gatt wrote:

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall.
Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"

-c

These are reasonable questions.

The aircraft would attempt to regain and maintain the trim speed as it
descends. Whether or not it had the time to do that before ground impact
however would be dependent on the altitude remaining, so depending on
the altitude, the airspeed at impact might be short of the trim speed.

(This type of question is typical of FAA orals. They're looking for the
trim speed answer while completely neglecting the time and altitude
factors which to be accurate would have to be in the answer equation.

My advice to the person taking the oral would be to give the trim speed
answer, get the certificate, put it deep in the wallet and in your
pocket, then politely suggest to the fuzz that the altitude should be
included in the answer if not in the question itself :-)

A slipped cross control stall as relates to spin entry is FAR less
pro-spin than a skid entry.

--
Dudley Henriques

On May 29, 8:19*am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
gatt wrote:

The aircraft would attempt to regain and maintain the trim speed as it
descends. Whether or not it had the time to do that before ground impact
however would be dependent on the altitude remaining, so depending on
the altitude, the airspeed at impact might be short of the trim speed.

When I was a student pilot my instructor always said the plane will
seek its trim speed regardless of what you do with power settings.
I've actually never found that to be totally true in any plane I've
flown but it is grossly true.

-Robert

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
gatt wrote:

A question the examiner asked him: "You're flying cross-country and
trimmed at 110 knots. You die, and the engine quits. At what airspeed
will the aircraft strike the ground?"

Another was, "You're turning final and you enter a cross-control stall.
Is it better to be in a slip, or a skid?"

-c

These are reasonable questions.

The aircraft would attempt to regain and maintain the trim speed as it
descends. Whether or not it had the time to do that before ground impact
however would be dependent on the altitude remaining, so depending on the
altitude, the airspeed at impact might be short of the trim speed.

(This type of question is typical of FAA orals. They're looking for the
trim speed answer while completely neglecting the time and altitude
factors which to be accurate would have to be in the answer equation.

My advice to the person taking the oral would be to give the trim speed
answer, get the certificate, put it deep in the wallet and in your pocket,
then politely suggest to the fuzz that the altitude should be included in
the answer if not in the question itself :-)

A slipped cross control stall as relates to spin entry is FAR less
pro-spin than a skid entry.

--
Dudley Henriques

Also need to look at coprs position are you slumped over and placign fwd
control pressure on the yoke? is the auto pilot on? lots of questions....

Dudley Henriques presented the following explanation :
A slipped cross control stall as relates to spin entry is FAR less pro-spin
than a skid entry.

Dudley, I don't understand why that is? Are you assuming 110 nauts?

Gezellig wrote:
Dudley Henriques presented the following explanation :
A slipped cross control stall as relates to spin entry is FAR less
pro-spin than a skid entry.

Dudley, I don't understand why that is? Are you assuming 110 nauts?



Not sure what you're asking as the 110 kts is connected to the other
question, not the cross controlled stall question as referenced above,
but taking a guess......if you check question number one about dying at
the controls, the trim speed given was 110 kts. :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques laid this down on his screen :
Gezellig wrote:
Dudley Henriques presented the following explanation :
A slipped cross control stall as relates to spin entry is FAR less
pro-spin than a skid entry.

Dudley, I don't understand why that is? Are you assuming 110 nauts?



Not sure what you're asking as the 110 kts is connected to the other
question, not the cross controlled stall question as referenced above, but
taking a guess......if you check question number one about dying at the
controls, the trim speed given was 110 kts. :-)

lol

I got my answer from your other post. I got on track from the
discussion, I have no idea where I got off track on the 110 nauts.

I revel in my ineptitude. It makes me endearing. I hope I get laid
because of it.

No, forget that. I don't need another bimbette in my life.