Let's Get Real Here.

Roger (K8RI) wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:21:57 -0700, Bret Ludwig
wrote:

Can two 300 pounders fly this thing?
Lordy, two 300 pounders in the front seats of a Cherokee would be too
much. What 4 passenger production GA plane could take two 300 pounder
in the front seats and not be out of CG?
I'm guessing MAYBE a Navion.
But I'd want to check the POH carefully before trying it!


T-6,or any mil trainer besides maybe a old Ryan. Even a T-34 will
accomodate as heavy a pilot as will fit.

Two 300 pounders? These are neither light sport, or 4 passenger
aircraft though.
More like heavy transport

...3. The average person who can afford an airplane
in America now weighs upwards of 250 lbs...

Cite?

Bob K.

Bob Kuykendall wrote:
...3. The average person who can afford an airplane
in America now weighs upwards of 250 lbs...

Cite?

Maybe he includes the weight of their wallet just prior to them buying an
airplane? Or maybe he means average of the 95th percentile? Otherwise it is
easier to find cites that contradict that claim:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/bodymeas.htm
http://www.halls.md/chart/height-weight.htm

As a vendor at more than a few shows, I cringe when I see the 275# guy walk
up and want to talk about building and flying an ultralight helicopter that
weighs just slightly more than he does. I try to sell him on my
power/weight improvement program that is guaranteed to work on all sorts of
aircraft. It is a hockey goalies mask with the mouth holes taped up.
--
Stuart & Kathryn Fields, Publishers
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
(760) 608-1299 technical cell
www.experimentalhelo.com
www.vkss.com


"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
Bob Kuykendall wrote:
...3. The average person who can afford an airplane
in America now weighs upwards of 250 lbs...

Cite?

Maybe he includes the weight of their wallet just prior to them buying an
airplane? Or maybe he means average of the 95th percentile? Otherwise it
is
easier to find cites that contradict that claim:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/bodymeas.htm
http://www.halls.md/chart/height-weight.htm

"Dan" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:
"Bret Ludwig" wrote
Some people this heavy are not obese as muscular and huge, such as
football players. With exceptions such as "Refrigerator" Perry,
football players are not fat. Yet they weigh a lot. There are 6'4" 300
lb body builders who are considered "Greek Adonis" and not "fat".
Airplanes should be designed to comfortably accomodate NFL offensive
linesmen.

At what expense? Make all trainers capable of hauling weight as a T-34?
I
thought you wanted to see less expensive planes?

I don't want to pay to haul around offensive linemen. Even then, your
argument is weak. You and I both know damn well that you are talking
mainly
about the obese average height lard ass.

A NFL player can afford to go rent (or buy) a fleet of warbirds, or
other
4-6 passenger planes. Let them. I can not.

Don't let anyone accuse you have a sensitive side.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

IMHO, the weight limits on Light Sport are the totally unreasonable
determination of a bunch of desk jockeys. At the very least, they should
have accomodated the weights of two seat basic trainers commonly made and
used in the United States. The cost to build and maintain an aircraft of
750KG gross weigth would not be substantially more than for a 600KG
aircraft--and would very likely be less. In attition, it would have put
more companies and craftsmen back to work here in the USA.

Peter
Grrrrr.....

On Aug 26, 10:00 pm, Rich Ahrens wrote:
Roger (K8RI) wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:52:33 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
roups.com...

1. How much cheaper is this thing going to be to produce than a
Skyhawk? ...
2. Where are they going to make this thing?
I think that we can safely leave #1 and #2 to Cessna management.
3. The average person who can afford an airplane in America now
weighs upwards of 250 lbs and some top 300.
To me, this is the real issue. The problem is not just with Cessna. other
2-seat LSAs also can't hold two real-world pilots.

Since the max 1320 pound gross weight maximum of the average LSA is set
more by the rule book than by engineering and physics, one must suspect that
these aircraft are being marketed with a wink. They are actually perfectly
capable of carrying more payload than they are certified for.

Can two 300 pounders fly this thing?

Lordy, two 300 pounders in the front seats of a Cherokee would be too
much. What 4 passenger production GA plane could take two 300 pounder
in the front seats and not be out of CG?

A 182, for one. For that matter, our old 177RG, if you threw some weight
in back for balance.

Thanks to the Miracle of Moment we can use a small weight at the very
tail to put forward CG in balance with low amounts of total mass. Most
airplanes are way longer from the CG back than from the CG front.

On Aug 26, 7:36 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Bret Ludwig" wrote



Some people this heavy are not obese as muscular and huge, such as
football players. With exceptions such as "Refrigerator" Perry,
football players are not fat. Yet they weigh a lot. There are 6'4" 300
lb body builders who are considered "Greek Adonis" and not "fat".
Airplanes should be designed to comfortably accomodate NFL offensive
linesmen.

At what expense? Make all trainers capable of hauling weight as a T-34? I
thought you wanted to see less expensive planes?


Key to cost reduction is volume.

The T-34 is the airplane people WANT. Study Trade-A-Plane.

And it isn't even a particularly good airplane.

Study too why MOTORCYCLING is very successful with huge market growth
in the last 50 years and GA is not. Despite being even more
dangerous. Let me know what you think it is. Hint: The Usual Reason
is horse**** and I can prove it.

"Bret Ludwig" wrote

Thanks to the Miracle of Moment we can use a small weight at the very
tail to put forward CG in balance with low amounts of total mass. Most
airplanes are way longer from the CG back than from the CG front.

Except for the little fact that the plane is not certified to carry around a
counterweight in the tailcone.
--
Jim in NC

Owned a 57 Lane... Yup, you developed real upper body strength after a
few hundred landings, pulling that yoke all the way to your chin...
Never thought it was a problem, though...

denny

"Morgans" wrote in message
...
|
| "Bret Ludwig" wrote
|
| Thanks to the Miracle of Moment we can use a small weight at the
very
| tail to put forward CG in balance with low amounts of total mass.
Most
| airplanes are way longer from the CG back than from the CG front.
|
| Except for the little fact that the plane is not certified to carry
around a
| counterweight in the tailcone.
| --
| Jim in NC
|
|

Didn't the Piper Pawnee carry the battery back there? I think there was
an issue of corrosion.
--
OldPhart