How safe is a new teenaged pilot?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:k4Vge.77243$WI3.40856@attbi_s71...
There are very good reasons that car insurance for 17 year old boys costs
exponentially more than for adults.

Does aviation insurance cost any more for 17-year-olds than for adults?

There are very good reasons that car insurance for 17 year old boys costs
exponentially more than for adults.

Does aviation insurance cost any more for 17-year-olds than for adults?

Actually, it will cost less to put my son on our flight insurance than it
will to add him to our 8-year old Subaru insurance. (The insurance agent
only laughed when we asked about adding him to our Mustang convertible...
;-)

I'm hoping that this says that teenage pilots are better than teenage
drivers.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article k4Vge.77243$WI3.40856@attbi_s71, Jay Honeck wrote:
A 17 year old boy is basically a fleshy container of hormones, with great
stamina, questionable stability, and loads of bravado. This is NOT
necessarily a great fit with being a new pilot -- especially when you put
two of these guys inside the same vehicle.

I'd agree; not NECESSARILY a great fit, but you do have to know the
pilot in question. The youngest pilot I know was one of the line guys at
Houston Gulf airport; I would have had NO qualms letting him fly my
Cessna 140 with an appropriate checkout. However, there are some people
I wouldn't even take as passengers!

Most of the younger pilots I have known I feel I could trust with my
plane too. There are a few I wouldn't, but there are also quite a few
older pilots I wouldn't trust with an RC model let alone full scale!

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"Jay Honeck"

A 17 year old boy is basically a fleshy container of hormones, with great
stamina, questionable stability, and loads of bravado. This is NOT
necessarily a great fit with being a new pilot -- especially when you put
two of these guys inside the same vehicle.

Reasonable extrapolation. Stats please.

There are very good reasons that car insurance for 17 year old boys costs
exponentially more than for adults. They generally have poor judgment,
and are known to end their statements -- and sometimes their lives -- with
"Watch this!"

Personally, I'd be VERY reluctant to allow my son to fly with another 17
year old boy.

Because he's inadequately trained? Too hormonal? (Women are this way all
the time, right?)

Driver training and pilot training are worlds apart. The standards, both
for instruction and evaluation, are nearly incomparable. Nobody thinks this
should be different. Flight training, by the book we all use, pretty much,
assumes all students are dangers unto themselves and others. Driver
education, by comparison, is a joke. Was your experience any different?

moo

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:k4Vge.77243$WI3.40856@attbi_s71...
That report includes the statement that "ASF studies have shown that low
pilot time in type is often a significant contributing factor in
accidents." But I didn't see any specific data there to back it up.

I think if we read "between the lines" we will find that the poster is
really concerned with this pilot's youth -- perhaps more so than with his
low flight time.

A 17 year old boy is basically a fleshy container of hormones, with great
stamina, questionable stability, and loads of bravado. This is NOT
necessarily a great fit with being a new pilot -- especially when you put
two of these guys inside the same vehicle.

There are very good reasons that car insurance for 17 year old boys costs
exponentially more than for adults. They generally have poor judgment,
and are known to end their statements -- and sometimes their lives -- with
"Watch this!"

Personally, I'd be VERY reluctant to allow my son to fly with another 17
year old boy.
--


Jay,

Would you let your son drive with a 17 year old?

"Jay Honeck" writes:

That report includes the statement that "ASF studies have shown that low
pilot time in type is often a significant contributing factor in
accidents." But I didn't see any specific data there to back it up.

I think if we read "between the lines" we will find that the poster is
really concerned with this pilot's youth -- perhaps more so than with his
low flight time.

A 17 year old boy is basically a fleshy container of hormones, with great
stamina, questionable stability, and loads of bravado. This is NOT
necessarily a great fit with being a new pilot -- especially when you put
two of these guys inside the same vehicle.

There are very good reasons that car insurance for 17 year old boys costs
exponentially more than for adults. They generally have poor judgment, and
are known to end their statements -- and sometimes their lives -- with
"Watch this!"

Personally, I'd be VERY reluctant to allow my son to fly with another 17
year old boy.

People aren't averages, though, either. There are *some* careful and
mature 17-year-olds. Since the parents know the other boy, I'd
suggest *that* is the main area to consider. Does he show signs of
typical adolescent stupid behavior? Does he show definit signs of
*resisting* it? Maybe not so bad a risk.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, , http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
RKBA: http://noguns-nomoney.com/ http://www.dd-b.net/carry/
Pics: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/ http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/
Dragaera/Steven Brust: http://dragaera.info/

Gary Drescher wrote:
"anon" wrote in message
news
Our 17 year old son want to fly as a passenger with his 17 year old friend
who
is a brand new pilot. We think the boy is level-headed and mature. He
grew up
flying with his dad who is a retired test pilot for an aircraft
manufacturer.

These credentials not withstanding, I'm guessing that there is increased
risk
of accidents with new pilots. We are uncomfortable about letting him fly
with
his friend, but we want to be reasonable.

I would appreciate any data or guidance this group could provide.


The standard reference for small-plane safety statistics is the Air Safety
Foundation's Nall Report (http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/03nall.pdf).
As far as I know, there are no good statistics about the safety of new
pilots vs. more-experienced pilots. But I doubt new pilots are at increased
risk. It's not that pilots' skills don't continue to improve; but newer
pilots will tend to avoid more-challenging flight circumstances (weather
etc.) that more-experienced pilots might not be deterred by, so the overall
risk might remain about the same.

The main additional risk is lack of well developed judgement. The 17
year-old likely has very good skill, but the thing I'd be a little
concerned about is would he exercise good judgement and not show off a
little for his friend. If he really is mature and level-headed, then I
think the risk is small.


Matt

Our 17 year old son want to fly as a passenger with his 17 year old
friend who is a brand new pilot.

New pilots are generally careful, but I'd emphasize to both that
buzzing girlfriend's houses is a no-no. Youth will sometimes be youth.

That said, here's an idea: why don't you take a test ride yourself with
him? (Buying half the flight time would be nice.) You might come away
impressed with his professionalism (or not). Then you can come back
here and mention anything you thought seemed unsafe or unusual, and get
more comments.

You might even decide to become a pilot yourself grin or ask your son
to become one.

Best, Kev

"Kev" wrote in message
oups.com...
New pilots are generally careful, but I'd emphasize to both that
buzzing girlfriend's houses is a no-no. Youth will sometimes be youth.

It might be just like with cars... A 17-yr old driver might not necessarily
be unsafe, but put a few of them together in a car and it gets that way... I
would suggest mounting a video camera in the plane and let them know that
the entire flight will be recorded and anything that is even slightly unsafe
will be dealt with by way of serious punishment... Make your son understand
that he is also responsible for any unsafe actions by his friend and will be
punished...

I
would suggest mounting a video camera in the plane and let them know that
the entire flight will be recorded and anything that is even slightly unsafe
will be dealt with by way of serious punishment...

If I were the pilot, I would not fly the passenger under that kind of
threat. Starting out with that attitude tells me the passenger is bad news.

However, mounting a video camera to share the flight with dad would feel
much different.

Having dad take a flight first is the best idea.

Jose
--
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