Owner's Manual Format

Peter Dohm wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
cavelamb himself wrote:




Print your own???

So you think I can print a single copy from a CD cheaper than the
maker of the widget can print 100's?

That's not quite the point.

The most common reason stated for not providing a comprehensive
manual is that too many of the customers are not utilizing the
manuals. Therefore, according to the argument, the customers are
unwilling to bear the cost--instead they will purchase a competing
product which does not include that cost; or may simply do without
the product.
Therefore, the printable manual is an acceptable compromise for those
customers who demand a printed manual. (Personally, I don't like the
result as well as a bound manual; but it is a usefull compromise most
of the time.)
Peter

My entire argument was that I thought we were talking about a manual that
was REQUIRED to be in the aircraft. IF that isn't the case the, well, never
mind.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Peter Dohm wrote:

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

cavelamb himself wrote:



Print your own???

So you think I can print a single copy from a CD cheaper than the
maker of the widget can print 100's?


That's not quite the point.

The most common reason stated for not providing a comprehensive
manual is that too many of the customers are not utilizing the
manuals. Therefore, according to the argument, the customers are
unwilling to bear the cost--instead they will purchase a competing
product which does not include that cost; or may simply do without
the product.
Therefore, the printable manual is an acceptable compromise for those
customers who demand a printed manual. (Personally, I don't like the
result as well as a bound manual; but it is a usefull compromise most
of the time.)
Peter


My entire argument was that I thought we were talking about a manual that
was REQUIRED to be in the aircraft. IF that isn't the case the, well, never
mind.



If it is...
I doubt any inspector would accept a CD in the glove compartment.

In our software business, we have abandoned including a printed manual
for free long time ago. The manual is included in file format and is
optionally printed for an extra fee. Some governments or large corps
want it printed - and we print it at time of sale with the office
printer and then get it spiral bound at local printing co. (~ $3). The
main reason is not the cost but product changes. I am sure that you
continually improve your products too and the manuals could be out of
date after being printed. Like a lot of companies, you could also have
the manuals available on your website in PDF format. See for example
Dynon http://dynonavionics.com/docs/suppor...mentation.html

On Dec 4, 1:16 pm, "RST Engineering" wrote:
Printing costs have been on a steady exponential increase, following right
along with energy costs associated with creating paper from trees, soybean
prices for ink, and all the rest of the process involved with creating paper
manuals.

On the other hand, the price of optical media (DVD and CDROM) is plummeting.
Anybody that has bought any computer electronic device recently soon
discovers that other than the single sheet "quick start" guide, all the rest
of the owner's manual is on CDROM.

I guess the real question is whether a 10-20% bump in the cost of an
aviation electronic product to provide a printed black and white product
manual versus 0% increase for a CDROM that can be done in full living color
is worth it.
.....

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Peter Dohm wrote:
"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
cavelamb himself wrote:




Print your own???

So you think I can print a single copy from a CD cheaper than the
maker of the widget can print 100's?

That's not quite the point.

The most common reason stated for not providing a comprehensive
manual is that too many of the customers are not utilizing the
manuals. Therefore, according to the argument, the customers are
unwilling to bear the cost--instead they will purchase a competing
product which does not include that cost; or may simply do without
the product.
Therefore, the printable manual is an acceptable compromise for those
customers who demand a printed manual. (Personally, I don't like the
result as well as a bound manual; but it is a usefull compromise most
of the time.)
Peter

My entire argument was that I thought we were talking about a manual that
was REQUIRED to be in the aircraft. IF that isn't the case the, well,
never mind.

I thought that was the case as well--initially--and did not plan to
contribute.

But, then, after the topic appeared to become more inclusive, I just had to
mention my own pet irritation--albeit rather gently.

Peter

Why not do like many of the IT manufacturers? Distribute the documentation
on a CD and make the printed manual an optional extra cost item as long as
the printed manual is not required to be onboard the aircraft at all times.
The CD distribution brings another advantage in that patches and updates
could be distributed as downloads, or new versions could be purchased and
shipped very efficiently and at low cost.

Taking this thought even further, why not integrate the CD or DVD player
video output with an MFD if available?

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Printing costs have been on a steady exponential increase, following right
along with energy costs associated with creating paper from trees, soybean
prices for ink, and all the rest of the process involved with creating
paper manuals.

On the other hand, the price of optical media (DVD and CDROM) is
plummeting. Anybody that has bought any computer electronic device
recently soon discovers that other than the single sheet "quick start"
guide, all the rest of the owner's manual is on CDROM.

I guess the real question is whether a 10-20% bump in the cost of an
aviation electronic product to provide a printed black and white product
manual versus 0% increase for a CDROM that can be done in full living
color is worth it.

(BTW, we can do ALL our manuals on a single CDROM, so you get much more
information on the whole product line than with a single manual.)

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

Ernest Christley writes:
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

My entire argument was that I thought we were talking about a manual
that was REQUIRED to be in the aircraft. IF that isn't the case the,
well, never mind.

Required manuals? Why does that bring to mind, "Oh! Then engine is on
fire. I'd better break out the manual!"

There are certain charts that might be useful in flight, but for the
most part I don't care to wait to read the manual until I need it.
The manual should be safe at home, and any necessary lookup tables
printed.

Except that FAR 91.9(b) begs to differ.

--
James Carlson, Solaris Networking
Sun Microsystems / 35 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084
MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677

There is no indication that CD's will last 50 years banging around in
a flight bag, being tossed into the baggage compartment, thrown on a
shelf in the hangar where they go from 20 below to 120 degrees over
and over through the years...... I have printed manuals on Fat Albert
that are that old and have ... THey still boot up just fine...
Also, I cannot balance a CD on my tummy in bed and read it.. I vote
for the manufacturers to be required to supply a printed manual on
dead trees...

denny

There is no indication that CD's will last 50 years banging around in
a flight bag, being tossed into the baggage compartment, thrown on a
shelf in the hangar where they go from 20 below to 120 degrees over
and over through the years

They probably won't. Then again, how many pieces of avionics do you have in
the airplane that are 50 years old? 40? 30? 20, perhaps.


....... I have printed manuals on Fat Albert
that are that old and have ... THey still boot up just fine...
Also, I cannot balance a CD on my tummy in bed and read it..

So you are interested in assessing everybody who buys the equipment to pay a
$5 tax because you want a printed manual? That doesn't seem hardly fair,
does it? You want a full manual? Print your own from the CD. You only
need chapters C and G, print just C and G.


I vote
for the manufacturers to be required to supply a printed manual on
dead trees...

Ya know, one of the privileges of being in the manufacturing game is that
the customer can't "require" anything. You are perfectly welcome to vote
with your pocketbook, but you can't "require" anything.

Jim

RST Engineering wrote:

Ya know, one of the privileges of being in the manufacturing game is that
the customer can't "require" anything. You are perfectly welcome to vote
with your pocketbook, but you can't "require" anything.

Jim



Didn't this whole thread start Jim with you asking us our opinion on the
issue? And your privilege is only for those manufactures like yourself
that are selling ones and twos to a bunch of customers. Try doing
business with Wal-Mart and tell me how they can't require that you do
something.

Well, Jim is a grump when anyone disagrees with him, especially me..
Second, he is correct that the customer can vote with his feet - once
it becomes known on the chat groups that a manufacturer is a grumpass
who is not friendly after the sale...

The issue for Jim, is that the cost of a printed manual is a
significant fraction of the total price of his product.. And, what I
am reading betwen the lines is that he is hooked on the horns of a
dilemma where raising the price of his product will reduce sales
because his customers are looking for a cheap solution to their
needs, but continuing to supply a printed manual reduces his profit
margin below a sustainable level...
So he sees a solution as being either a CD or preferably a web site
with a down load PDF... But then, he laments that his customers are
'technotards' who aren't lining up in droves to save him money...
uummm,welcome to the real world, Jim

OK, I could on on for half of a thick book with trendline analysis,
similar product studies, etc., etc... But I don't see many of you as
being willing to read it...

The readers digest version is that Jim needs to change to a web based
site with download PDF files.... Make it clear in the sales literature
that the schematics, board photos, and the step by step instructions
are only available that way... For those who are total technotards,
also have a mechanism where they can call up InstyPrint, et. al. and
buy a manual shipped by express mail... Yes, this will impact your
sales, but not as much as a 15% or 20% increase in selling price....

denny