Gene Whitt's Lawsuit

wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..

Sorry I don't, but out of curiosity, what is the rationale behind an
airport banning freelance CFIs? Other than fuel surcharge we do not
really pay any money to the airport when we take a dual, do we? I
don't understand how the airport stands to lose if I tried to take
flying lessons in my own airplane privately with a CFI.

The FBO's typically pay rents and percentage of the take.
They want to protect the FBO who is paying versus the freelancers
who don't.

On Dec 2, 9:51 pm, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
That does not meet the Federal standard and is not enforceable. It is too
restrictive with words added to allow the county to require permits and fees
to operate at the federally funded airport.

Yes, but: How do you get the FAA to enforce their regs?


denny

wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..

Has the airport ever taken AIP funds from the FAA?

wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..
I'm not sure I understand the scenario here and could use some backup
information. I'm a long time fan of Gene's, but unless I'm missing
something, free lance CFI's operating off an airport have always as far
as I know been an issue for the FBO both from a business standpoint and
from a potential liability standpoint.
Both of these positions are valid objections. The FBO or the airport
authority or whoever or whatever is responsible to the insurance company
covering liability for the airport not only has an inherent right, but a
responsibility to insure that anyone conducting a business operating
from the property has been duly cleared to do so by the insurance
covering the airport.
I understand these things are quite complicated, but I can definately
see potential issues for a free lance CFI operating commercially from a
field without meeting these conditions.
This having been said, I sincerely hope Gene Whitt can work things out
as he is a fine flight instructor.


--
Dudley Henriques

On Dec 2, 6:25 am, DrRobb wrote:

This seems to be the reasoning behind the proposal.. At this time
there is not an FBO operating on the field. The manager (or the city
through the manger) wants to require that all CFI who teach at the
field hold scheduled office hours and maintain office space. A&P's
are allowed to operate on the field unregulated. It seems to me that
any time one of the dozens of student/instructor combos does a touch
and go at the field, they'd be violatingthe rules set by the manager..- Hide quoted text -

The issue is confusing. Mather Airport in Sacramento also has the same
ban. Any CFI doing business there *MUST* have office space there.
There was an FBO from a nearby airport that wanted to purchase tie
down and allow pilots to rent their planes from Mather (on your honor,
no FBO office there). The airport found out about it and removed them.
This FBO is already fully insured, etc so that wasn't the issue. I
think the issue is keeping office space rented so non-aviation
businesses don't try to move in.

-Robert

Looks like a call to the local FSDO, state attorney general and the
AOPA should be able to clear up this issue.

In my opinion, since the airport is recieving federal funds from the
FAA, the airport manager is in violation. The flight instructor only
needs to meet TSA regulations and not violate any FAR's.

On Dec 1, 7:55 pm, wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..

Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport. I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.
I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction
Thank you all !!!

wrote:
On Dec 1, 7:55 pm, wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..

Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport. I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.
I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction
Thank you all !!!


As a long time free lance flight instructor I can sympathize with your
issues, but I also have questions on these issues that might address
potential problems faced by an FBO running an airport being used for
commercial purposes by a flight instructor not directly connected with
that airport as an insured employee.

Can you please post here any and all knowledge you have concerning the
potential liability situation faced by the operator of the airport you
are using to give flight instruction from as that would relate to any
accident you might have while giving dual from this airport?

What is the exact insurance issue relating to your use of the field
there as a commercial operator not directly employed by the operator
running the field?

Also, if there is a flight school operating on the field, knowing that
might be helpful in assessing your situation by others viewing your post.
Thank you

Dudley Henriques

--
Dudley Henriques

wrote:
On Dec 1, 7:55 pm, wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..

Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport. I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.
I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction
Thank you all !!!

Have you contacted the AOPA? They may be able to point you to some
assistance. A well written letter from a lawyer to your cities airport
commission that is CC'd to the FAA's AIP and FSDO offices might be enough to
get them to flinch.

wrote:
Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport.

The terms of your offer need to be clarified.

If you are running advertisements to the effect that you or your
"enterprise" is to offer flight instruction to the public, then I can
see why the airport manager would get nervous since the airport is
implied as being party to it.

If you met one or more private individuals owning aircraft that want
your instructional service, then you can have a private agreement, in my
opinion, to provide him/her with instructions as long as FAA 61/91 are
adhered to.

It gets more tricky if you have an aircraft based at that field and you
offer primiary instruction in it to individuals and student pilots,
since it invariably comes to student pilots taking off solo from and
landing at that airport, when you, the instructotor must be availble,
and ther is some risk extant.

I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.

This means the manager is offering the opportunity for you to set up a
formal flight school, which could be feasible, or it could be absurd
depending on your intentions and resources.

I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction

Sounds like you have an airplane, and have established an "enterprise".

Perhaps tere is middle ground. But the insurance companies always end
up being the spoilers in such situations since they want to reduce THEIR
risk to zero.

Good luck.

Angelo Campanella