Rough Field Landings

Here I am with the big stick again. I can't recall anyone discussing
rough area landings or hostile terrain landings in a long time. For
example, forced to land (no matter the reason-you supply one) and you
are headed into a corn field, or a rice paddy, or trees, or perhaps
mountain slopes. Well lets take it to the swamps where you have both
trees and water? Hmmmm, how about on city streets?
Anyone ever paid much attention to the field surfaces as you drive
along? Or the wires that cross streets and highways? Or traffic flows
and bridge heights? These are all things that ag pilots look at almost
unconciously and deal with on a regular basis.
How about you? Sure it may never happen but statistics don't mean a
thing when you are tagged, IT!
With winter on us and snow on the ground, can you tell what is under
that white mantle? Can you tell how deep it is? Are you prepared to
stay warm until you can get out or until help arrives? What a bummer to
make a good landing on a frozen lake and then freeze to death because
you didn't have any warm gear with you. Like the two blondes who froze
to death at the drive in when they went to see "Closed For The Winter".
(sorry I couldn't help myself)
I won't bore you with the places where I have had to land, or when I
rescued people who had landed in nasty places. What I can do is share
some of the information I learned from it.
Now I'm gonna sit back and wait to see who is interested and wants to
participate in an exchange of knowledge and ideas.
Ol Shy & Bashful - The CFII with the big stirring stick

wrote in message
ups.com...
Here I am with the big stick again. I can't recall anyone discussing
rough area landings or hostile terrain landings in a long time. For
example, forced to land (no matter the reason-you supply one) and you
are headed into a corn field, or a rice paddy, or trees, or perhaps
mountain slopes.

Okay, I'll bite first.

I'm over unsettled wilderness and there is an unbroken stand of 30 foot
evergreens as far as the eye can see. I'm gonna have to put a C172 down
into that.

Tell me how to do it.

Now, my uninformed personal opinion would be to flare as if I intended to
land on the tree tops, and as I start to sink, pull up more than usual to
try to mush into the trees in almost a tail stand. Is that possible?

The nice thing about some kinds of evergreens is that they bend over to
let you down easy. Of course, when they spring back up, it makes it
harder to see the downed aircraft except from above.

Icebound wrote:
I'm over unsettled wilderness and there is an unbroken stand of 30 foot
evergreens as far as the eye can see. I'm gonna have to put a C172 down
into that.
Tell me how to do it.
Now, my uninformed personal opinion would be to flare as if I intended to
land on the tree tops, and as I start to sink, pull up more than usual to
try to mush into the trees in almost a tail stand. Is that possible?

I would be concerned about spinning it into ground in this scenerio. I
think it would be better to maintain you minimum approach speed and
try to fly it between two trees so that the wings absorb most of the
energy.

Brian

You'd have to weigh the risk of falling out of the trees against the risk of
fire created by the fuel spilling out of the wings. I guess the worst would
be to be stuck in the trees, wings partially ripped off, and on fire. What
ever your choice, minimum approach speed is the key.
Jim

"Brian" wrote in message
oups.com...
I would be concerned about spinning it into ground in this scenerio. I
think it would be better to maintain you minimum approach speed and
try to fly it between two trees so that the wings absorb most of the
energy.

Brian



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Hello Icebound...
Well, do you know how tall the trees are? How big around are they? Are
they on a slope? Every situation is different but its nice to have some
kind of plan to work with. The fallacy of landing in the tops of trees
(from personal experience) is the aircraft is probably very near stall
speed. As soon as you touch a tree top the speed is very quickly
dragged into the stall range and the aircraft will head down. In my
case as a wing tip dragged across a tree top, the aircraft slewed
abruptly and started nearly nose down before it slammed into a big Oak
right on the nose. Then it settled nearly flat to the ground, or on top
of the smaller trees that got compressed as we settled. (in a C-150 at
night-1967)
In many parts of the world, those trees can be 200' tall and if you
stall out in the tops, you are headed for a hard fall. After seeing
many crashes into the trees, and in discussions with pilots who have
participated in the crash, or the rescue, most of us were in agreement
that its better to aim for a point near the ground and let the inertia
of the aircraft plow its way down and crash under control. even with
light aircraft you can make a pretty good hole in the trees. Survival
is pretty much a crap shoot in any event and I'm sure we all have seen
some miraculous stories...at least I have, of surivors of unsurvivable
crashes with no more than some bruises and lingering nightmares. I was
part of a search for a pilot in the Amazon in the early 60's when he
lost his engine about :05 out. We searched for him for two weeks and
never saw a sign. He came stumbling out of the jungle on day 15 non the
less for wear and tear. The trees there were at least 200' tall and
dense undergrowth. He worked his way back by trying to follow the
sounds of the occasional aircraft taking off. He had aimed for the base
of the trees and when we went back to the crash site could see his
crash path. From the air it was nearly impossible to spot.
So, you take your chances and hope for the best.
Ol Shy & Bashful

Good point about difficult to find. I remember a glider crash into the
trees during a competition in the Pennslyvania appalacians. We were on the
ground listening to the pilot try to direct overhead searching aircraft and
on the ground walking searchers to where he was hung in the trees. Finally
he had to get himself out and down and walk out. The bright white Glider
was never seen from the air. Had to walk back in the next day to get it.

Perhaps one of the more important tasks is making sure that ELT works. (not
req'd in gliders)

wrote in message
ups.com...
.. I was
part of a search for a pilot in the Amazon in the early 60's when he
lost his engine about :05 out. We searched for him for two weeks and
never saw a sign. He came stumbling out of the jungle on day 15 non the
less for wear and tear. The trees there were at least 200' tall and
dense undergrowth. He worked his way back by trying to follow the
sounds of the occasional aircraft taking off. He had aimed for the base
of the trees and when we went back to the crash site could see his
crash path. From the air it was nearly impossible to spot.
So, you take your chances and hope for the best.
Ol Shy & Bashful

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
m...
Good point about difficult to find. I remember a glider crash into the
trees during a competition in the Pennslyvania appalacians. We were on
the
ground listening to the pilot try to direct overhead searching aircraft
and
on the ground walking searchers to where he was hung in the trees.
Finally
he had to get himself out and down and walk out. The bright white Glider
was never seen from the air. Had to walk back in the next day to get it.

Perhaps one of the more important tasks is making sure that ELT works.
(not
req'd in gliders)

Even a better reason to carry a GPS, even if it is a cheap land based
handheld.
--
Jim in NC

Providing you can get a signal beneath the forest canopy.

Morgans wrote:
Even a better reason to carry a GPS, even if it is a cheap land based
handheld.

On 14 Dec 2004 05:57:17 -0800, wrote:

Here I am with the big stick again. I can't recall anyone discussing
rough area landings or hostile terrain landings in a long time. For
example, forced to land (no matter the reason-you supply one) and you
are headed into a corn field, or a rice paddy, or trees, or perhaps
mountain slopes. Well lets take it to the swamps where you have both
trees and water? Hmmmm, how about on city streets?
Anyone ever paid much attention to the field surfaces as you drive
along? Or the wires that cross streets and highways? Or traffic flows
and bridge heights? These are all things that ag pilots look at almost
unconciously and deal with on a regular basis.
How about you? Sure it may never happen but statistics don't mean a
thing when you are tagged, IT!
With winter on us and snow on the ground, can you tell what is under
that white mantle? Can you tell how deep it is? Are you prepared to
stay warm until you can get out or until help arrives? What a bummer to
make a good landing on a frozen lake and then freeze to death because
you didn't have any warm gear with you. Like the two blondes who froze
to death at the drive in when they went to see "Closed For The Winter".
(sorry I couldn't help myself)
I won't bore you with the places where I have had to land, or when I
rescued people who had landed in nasty places. What I can do is share
some of the information I learned from it.
Now I'm gonna sit back and wait to see who is interested and wants to
participate in an exchange of knowledge and ideas.
Ol Shy & Bashful - The CFII with the big stirring stick

I haven't seen half of what you have, and this type of problem does
cross my mind. Specifically upslope/downslope landings, trees, corn,
and city streets. Normal training does not cover much of this, and
while I like to think I've thought about it alot, hearing from someone
who's done it would help my knowledge alot (I hope).

Look forward to your post.
z