US National & World Records Require US Pilots to Hold FAI SportingLicense issued by NAA

The hierarchy of FAI to SSA has to run through the NAA. This is the way records are administered Internationally. The FAI only recognizes records that have been submitted through each country's National Aero Club. In the US, that is the NAA. It is not possible for a soaring record to be submitted directly to the FAI, unless it goes from the SSA to the NAA and then to the FAI.

As far as the FAI Sporting License, that is pretty much up to the individual discipline (AMA, SSA, USHPA, etc.) as to whether it is part of the membership dues. The cost is probably prohibitive for the SSA to offer to everybody, so if you want records, you have to pay the SSA $45, or $50 to the NAA. That is for a one-year license, so the 14 day argument is irrelevant. Apply at the beginning of the season and don't worry about it.

In most parts of the country, that is about the cost of a tow, or less. Other fees can definitely be prohibitive, so record flying may not be for everyone, just as sanctioned competition does not necessarily appeal to all pilots. The cost can be a major barrier to these endeavors, but asking the rest of the sport to subsidize a few pilots' efforts is also inappropriate.

So then, we all agree that the NAA is a required middle man. Being a required middle man that doesn't have to do much is a comfy place to be. It's a position likely to be defended vigorously.

The theory of bureaucracy states that when no one questions the system, a bureaucrat's fee increases until someone finally does. The original poster is on the right track to question the system. I applaud the effort to the extent that it gets followed through.

On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 11:38:31 AM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
So then, we all agree that the NAA is a required middle man. Being a required middle man that doesn't have to do much is a comfy place to be. It's a position likely to be defended vigorously.

The theory of bureaucracy states that when no one questions the system, a bureaucrat's fee increases until someone finally does. The original poster is on the right track to question the system. I applaud the effort to the extent that it gets followed through.

I'm guessing the NAA doesn't have a good understanding of any economic principles of pricing like simple elasticity of demand, cross elasticity, bundled pricing and market segmentation. I can think of a dozen pricing models to $50/year, 14 days in advance - which may be as punitive an approach as one can imagine. Alternative approaches could easily make users more satisfied AND earn the NAA more money. Bureaucratic monopolists, however, hardly ever think about how to make more money by making people more satisfied.

No national/international record flying for me. I hope the NAA is making good use of the $450 or so they collect every year.

9B

On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 2:21:09 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 11:38:31 AM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
So then, we all agree that the NAA is a required middle man. Being a required middle man that doesn't have to do much is a comfy place to be. It's a position likely to be defended vigorously.

The theory of bureaucracy states that when no one questions the system, a bureaucrat's fee increases until someone finally does. The original poster is on the right track to question the system. I applaud the effort to the extent that it gets followed through.

I'm guessing the NAA doesn't have a good understanding of any economic principles of pricing like simple elasticity of demand, cross elasticity, bundled pricing and market segmentation. I can think of a dozen pricing models to $50/year, 14 days in advance - which may be as punitive an approach as one can imagine. Alternative approaches could easily make users more satisfied AND earn the NAA more money. Bureaucratic monopolists, however, hardly ever think about how to make more money by making people more satisfied.

No national/international record flying for me. I hope the NAA is making good use of the $450 or so they collect every year.

9B

Monopoly or monarchical tyranny.

And besides we had a man who has spoken to the serfs and we think they are all very happy. How is your champagne? Cold enough?

Good feedback!

I'm just a volunteer who serves on the SSA's Badge & Records Committee. I will take your comments back to the committee and the SSA Board of Directors..

I'm still hoping to hear from the Pennysylvania or Appalachian Irregulars crowd. I would like to know their thoughts on this as well.

This is just my personal view, and I don't speak for the committee when I say this but I think it's a common complaint that the fees for filing an application for a new US National or World Record are cost prohibitive, or at the very least they discourage frequent national record attempts. I don't see how this helps or advances the sport. And, for some, including Juniors (youth), it absolutely would be cost prohibitive.

Thanks again for all your feedback. Keep the comments coming!

Safe flying,

Chris Schrader

Hello, Has anything resulted from the vigorous feedback that was supplied here?


On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 1:21:04 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Good feedback!

I'm just a volunteer who serves on the SSA's Badge & Records Committee. I will take your comments back to the committee and the SSA Board of Directors.

I'm still hoping to hear from the Pennysylvania or Appalachian Irregulars crowd. I would like to know their thoughts on this as well.

This is just my personal view, and I don't speak for the committee when I say this but I think it's a common complaint that the fees for filing an application for a new US National or World Record are cost prohibitive, or at the very least they discourage frequent national record attempts. I don't see how this helps or advances the sport. And, for some, including Juniors (youth), it absolutely would be cost prohibitive.

Thanks again for all your feedback. Keep the comments coming!

Safe flying,

Chris Schrader