US National & World Records Require US Pilots to Hold FAI SportingLicense issued by NAA

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 1:49:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I read there were a number of pilots that no longer submit US National record attempts because of the bureaucracy, complexities and fees associated with processing these FAI record attempts. If anyone is reading this and is willing to sound-off on the matter I would greatly appreciate it. I would like to take these comments back to the SSA's Badge & Records Committee.

Thanks,
Chris Schrader

I am definitely in that boat. The expense and fees associated with National Records make it prohibitive.

Best Regards,
Daniel

I believe that the SSA is one of the very small number of national bodies representing gliding in this world that has handed over record keeping at a national level to some other body. In our case the National Aeronautic Association, which survives by charging fees to any group that will bow to its bureaucracy.
The SSA does precious little for its members (the insurance for instance is a commercial group deal that could just as well work as a group policy for glider pilots without the SSA element). It is about to raise dues again, it continues to spend more than the membership dues provide, living on money subscribed to the Eagle Fund and the Foundation. It loses money on such boondoggles as merchandizing. It justifies staffing levels by holding conventions (and would like to go to annual conventions) at which it barely scrapes into the black yet when, back in the day, clubs ran them they made real money.
Take a look if you can bear the thought at the way those in charge nominate each other for the major awards.
Why does this happen? Because the membership looks the other way, ignores reality. Or leaves the SSA entirely (membership is steadily declining and will do so faster each time dues go up).
Allowing the NAA to continue to hold onto record keeping at the National and International level and charge lots to those who fly these magnificent flights is but a symptom of the state of the Association. But until members get involved (now there is a laugh and a half) nothing is going to change.
Will the last one a member please remember to turn out the lights.





On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 11:39:58 AM UTC-6, wrote:
An FAI Sporting License is required for US National and World Records.

One can be applied for and obtained from the National Aeronautic Association ("NAA") at the following link:

https://naa.aero/membership/membership-application

An FAI Sporting License is required for all US National & World Record attempts and all FAI sanctioned events and competitions. Sporting License applicants must be a member of NAA and/or a current member of the appropriate NAA Air Sport Organization (for gliding this is the Soaring Society of America).

An annual FAI Sporting License can be obtained by an SSA Member for $45 without paying for membership in the NAA (see the link above).

or

An FAI Sporting License can be obtained free or charge for those who want to be members of the NAA; the annual cost of membership in the NAA is $50. Glider pilots participating in competitions and/or record setting activities can receive a one-year FAI Sporting License (free of charge), but must complete and application for the sporting license (see the link above).

Due to FAI policy changes, you must apply for a Sporting License at least 14 days prior to your record attempt or competition. Applications submitted less than 14 days prior to the event may not be processed in time to allow you to participate.

AFAIK, FAI only recognizes one National Aero Club per country. IIRC, NAA was one of the charter members of the FAI. NAA delegated soaring badges and records to the SSA. Though other nations perhaps allow their national gliding organizations to manage badges and records without fees to their national aero clubs, we currently don't have that arrangement. Should we? Perhaps. I know there was some review of this following a complaint, but it's not a current action item. I've asked Denise if we have a file and archive on the NAA/SSA relationship and fees schedules. Presumably other competitive aero sports have similar fees and requirements within their organizations.

Frank Whiteley

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 9:25:07 PM UTC-6, howard banks wrote:
I believe that the SSA is one of the very small number of national bodies representing gliding in this world that has handed over record keeping at a national level to some other body. In our case the National Aeronautic Association, which survives by charging fees to any group that will bow to its bureaucracy.
The SSA does precious little for its members (the insurance for instance is a commercial group deal that could just as well work as a group policy for glider pilots without the SSA element). It is about to raise dues again, it continues to spend more than the membership dues provide, living on money subscribed to the Eagle Fund and the Foundation. It loses money on such boondoggles as merchandizing. It justifies staffing levels by holding conventions (and would like to go to annual conventions) at which it barely scrapes into the black yet when, back in the day, clubs ran them they made real money.
Take a look if you can bear the thought at the way those in charge nominate each other for the major awards.
Why does this happen? Because the membership looks the other way, ignores reality. Or leaves the SSA entirely (membership is steadily declining and will do so faster each time dues go up).
Allowing the NAA to continue to hold onto record keeping at the National and International level and charge lots to those who fly these magnificent flights is but a symptom of the state of the Association. But until members get involved (now there is a laugh and a half) nothing is going to change..
Will the last one a member please remember to turn out the lights.





On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 11:39:58 AM UTC-6, wrote:
An FAI Sporting License is required for US National and World Records.

One can be applied for and obtained from the National Aeronautic Association ("NAA") at the following link:

https://naa.aero/membership/membership-application

An FAI Sporting License is required for all US National & World Record attempts and all FAI sanctioned events and competitions. Sporting License applicants must be a member of NAA and/or a current member of the appropriate NAA Air Sport Organization (for gliding this is the Soaring Society of America).

An annual FAI Sporting License can be obtained by an SSA Member for $45 without paying for membership in the NAA (see the link above).

or

An FAI Sporting License can be obtained free or charge for those who want to be members of the NAA; the annual cost of membership in the NAA is $50. Glider pilots participating in competitions and/or record setting activities can receive a one-year FAI Sporting License (free of charge), but must complete and application for the sporting license (see the link above).

Due to FAI policy changes, you must apply for a Sporting License at least 14 days prior to your record attempt or competition. Applications submitted less than 14 days prior to the event may not be processed in time to allow you to participate.

On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 14:45:39 -0700, Frank Whiteley wrote:

Presumably other competitive aero sports have similar fees and
requirements within their organizations.

You could do worse than ask the Academy Of Model Aeronautics (AMA), or
get a glider pilot who also flies models to do so, since all members of
US World Championship model flying teams require FAI licenses.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I usually make a few record attempts each year. I pay the fee in the spring and have always been quite irritated at having do so. Rarely do I have a record accomplishment to submit yet each year my bank account is slimmer nonetheless. I would like to see this changed for sure.

$50 par year is about 1 less beer per month.
Everyone is free to set their own priorities.

Well B6, I suspect everyone who has posted here can afford all the beer they'd care to drink. The issue isn't priorities at all, the issue is being charged a fee for nothing -- no merchandise received, no services rendered. Paying that sort of a tax is annoying regardless the amount. I know of pilots who would fly for records were it not for the current NAA advance payment rule. In case you're not aware, NAA also charges a very hefty fee for processing a claim; so its sort of like: we'll get you coming and going - have fun buddy.

This does need to change.

Steve, bes sure to add the magazine subscription. Air & Space magazine is a very worthwhile read and makes the $50 a bit more palatable.

5Z

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:37:19 AM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
Well B6, I suspect everyone who has posted here can afford all the beer they'd care to drink. The issue isn't priorities at all, the issue is being charged a fee for nothing -- no merchandise received, no services rendered.. Paying that sort of a tax is annoying regardless the amount. I know of pilots who would fly for records were it not for the current NAA advance payment rule. In case you're not aware, NAA also charges a very hefty fee for processing a claim; so its sort of like: we'll get you coming and going - have fun buddy.

This does need to change.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 2:37:19 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
Well B6, I suspect everyone who has posted here can afford all the beer they'd care to drink. The issue isn't priorities at all, the issue is being charged a fee for nothing -- no merchandise received, no services rendered.. Paying that sort of a tax is annoying regardless the amount. I know of pilots who would fly for records were it not for the current NAA advance payment rule. In case you're not aware, NAA also charges a very hefty fee for processing a claim; so its sort of like: we'll get you coming and going - have fun buddy.

This does need to change.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion. I maintained my NAA membership for a couple of years and even made one attempt (failed) at a national record during those years. Record conditions come along rarely here in the eastern US - even more rarely on weekends. The more I thought of it, the more I realized this was just a fee to feed the NAA pure and simple. Air and Space magazine is nice, but I barely have time to read any of the other half-dozen aviation subscriptions I get through memberships.

Most people hopefully realize that all of the real work related to soaring and the FAI is done by the SSA and SSA Volunteers. Our badge administrator receives and processes every badge and record claim, does all the work, and determines (along with the OO and supported in rare cases by a Badge and Record Committee) approval or denial. SSA members work with the FAI to try to maintain sanity in the Sporting Code and related rules. The only time the NAA really gets involved is when a claim is submitted to the FAI and for some minor administrative work to log National records.

I proposed a few years back that we simply move to a "homolgation fee" for each record actually submitted. While distasteful, it would mean that you only pay for a flight you actually make. IIRC, the NAA pushed back on that..

Erik Mann (P3)
Formerly Chair of SSA Badge/Record Committee

I think I was paying about $9.00/year for Air and Space... But RAS is
so much more entertaining! =-O

I also seem to recall that I got all my diamonds with a FREE sporting
license, or did I not need the license for those flights?

On 9/6/2015 8:53 PM, wrote:
Steve, bes sure to add the magazine subscription. Air & Space magazine is a very worthwhile read and makes the $50 a bit more palatable.

5Z

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:37:19 AM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
Well B6, I suspect everyone who has posted here can afford all the beer they'd care to drink. The issue isn't priorities at all, the issue is being charged a fee for nothing -- no merchandise received, no services rendered. Paying that sort of a tax is annoying regardless the amount. I know of pilots who would fly for records were it not for the current NAA advance payment rule. In case you're not aware, NAA also charges a very hefty fee for processing a claim; so its sort of like: we'll get you coming and going - have fun buddy.

This does need to change.