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Opposite Direction Landing Operations - Efficiency? Geography?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 10th 15, 08:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
LBC
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Default Opposite Direction Landing Operations - Efficiency? Geography?

A question for all of you who fly various places around the US and world-

My question is regarding tow operations where launching/landing gliders use one runway end (likely, the end heading into the wind), and the landing towplane uses the opposing runway direction (likely, landing downwind.)

If you're at a club, field, or airport that routinely uses this type of operation-
1. Is it geography that drives this? (eg sloping terrain or obstacles)
2. Is it efficiency of operation? (eg, the towplane lands downwind and comes to a stop near the launch point, without having to taxi much.)
3. Is it some other reason?
4. In any case, do you have any procedures in place deconflict landing towplane and glider traffic, other than radio call awareness?
5. At what appx wind magnitude does the operation shift to all launches and landings all done in one direction - what is considered excessive tailwind for your towplane/operation?
6. Is using opposing landings a field policy, or does the operation let the towpilot/launch crew/glider pilots decide it on any given operating day ?
7. Any other comments or experiences you'd like to relate on opposing-landing operations?

Thanks for your insights.

  #2  
Old September 10th 15, 10:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Posts: 961
Default Opposite Direction Landing Operations - Efficiency? Geography?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 10:58:31 PM UTC+3, LBC wrote:
A question for all of you who fly various places around the US and world-

My question is regarding tow operations where launching/landing gliders use one runway end (likely, the end heading into the wind), and the landing towplane uses the opposing runway direction (likely, landing downwind.)

If you're at a club, field, or airport that routinely uses this type of operation-
1. Is it geography that drives this? (eg sloping terrain or obstacles)
2. Is it efficiency of operation? (eg, the towplane lands downwind and comes to a stop near the launch point, without having to taxi much.)
3. Is it some other reason?
4. In any case, do you have any procedures in place deconflict landing towplane and glider traffic, other than radio call awareness?
5. At what appx wind magnitude does the operation shift to all launches and landings all done in one direction - what is considered excessive tailwind for your towplane/operation?
6. Is using opposing landings a field policy, or does the operation let the towpilot/launch crew/glider pilots decide it on any given operating day ?
7. Any other comments or experiences you'd like to relate on opposing-landing operations?

Thanks for your insights.


Not at our home field, but at an annual camp on a farm topdressing strip.

- the site is a bit of an "aircraft carrier" with steep drop-offs on three sides and a "bridge" on the 4th side (i.e. it's a terrace on the side of a hill). It has significant slope, and the prevailing wind is upslope.

- both gliders and towplane land in the opposite direction to takeoffs

- I've only a couple of times seen a switch-over to landing in the downhill direction. I think it took around 15 knots the "wrong" way to prompt this. Takeoffs continued with the tailwind.

- there is no conflict between landing gliders and towplane. Takeoffs are de-conflicted primarily visually, with of course help from gliders calling "downwind" (and base/finals if they see the towplane lined up).

- we don't allow inexperience pilots to fly solo there. I'm not sure of any formal requirement, but practically speaking you'd be cross-country rated.

A photo and a video of the site:

http://cs10405.vk.me/u53282174/124785828/z_e25b669c.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xrsNm9kJ5s
  #3  
Old September 10th 15, 11:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 1,383
Default Opposite Direction Landing Operations - Efficiency? Geography?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 3:58:31 PM UTC-4, LBC wrote:
A question for all of you who fly various places around the US and world-

My question is regarding tow operations where launching/landing gliders use one runway end (likely, the end heading into the wind), and the landing towplane uses the opposing runway direction (likely, landing downwind.)

If you're at a club, field, or airport that routinely uses this type of operation-
1. Is it geography that drives this? (eg sloping terrain or obstacles)
2. Is it efficiency of operation? (eg, the towplane lands downwind and comes to a stop near the launch point, without having to taxi much.)
3. Is it some other reason?
4. In any case, do you have any procedures in place deconflict landing towplane and glider traffic, other than radio call awareness?
5. At what appx wind magnitude does the operation shift to all launches and landings all done in one direction - what is considered excessive tailwind for your towplane/operation?
6. Is using opposing landings a field policy, or does the operation let the towpilot/launch crew/glider pilots decide it on any given operating day ?
7. Any other comments or experiences you'd like to relate on opposing-landing operations?

Thanks for your insights.


Our field (I've flown there since the early '70's) tends to be "safer" taking off to the west (more options for..... whatever may happen)....
Landings tend to be, "Into the wind", thus maybe ~30% of the time AGAINST glider traffic takeoff direction.

Not an issue for us, or the "regulars" at our field.
"Major issue" for "power training flights/transients" coming into our public use airport at times. They seem to have issues dealing with "something new".

Then again, they think a 2200' paved runway is a "short runway"....... sigh.......
  #4  
Old September 11th 15, 01:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Posts: 753
Default Opposite Direction Landing Operations - Efficiency? Geography?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 6:25:50 PM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:

Our field (I've flown there since the early '70's) tends to be "safer" taking off to the west (more options for..... whatever may happen)....
Landings tend to be, "Into the wind", thus maybe ~30% of the time AGAINST glider traffic takeoff direction.

Not an issue for us, or the "regulars" at our field.
"Major issue" for "power training flights/transients" coming into our public use airport at times. They seem to have issues dealing with "something new".

Then again, they think a 2200' paved runway is a "short runway"....... sigh.......


Similar to Charlie's comments- Blairstown NJ operations strongly favor taking off to the West (RWY 25). There is 2000 feet of farmland off the end of the runway, greatly improving the situation in the event of a PTT. The east end is populated by a fenced dog run and athletic fields, which are obviously much less desirable alternatives.

So, we tend to take off on 25 unless the winds are more than 10kts out of the NNW to East. The towplane normally lands on 07 because the approach is much clearer and the landing area is fully available (gliders are staged in the grass runway parallel to paved runway 25). The gliders land on whichever runway the winds favor; that decision is made by the instructors of the day.

The runways are appropriately marked (including hold-short lines on the taxiway which crosses the grass runway), but we do have to be vigilant for transient folks who don't "get" the fact that there are two, parallel runways. Local pilots (power and glider) tend to do a very good job of fitting in. Folks just passing through who haven't checked the AFD can be confused, especially because the gliders use a left pattern on 25 and right pattern on 07.

Confused?

P3
  #5  
Old September 11th 15, 12:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 7
Default Opposite Direction Landing Operations - Efficiency? Geography?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 9:58:31 PM UTC+2, LBC wrote:
A question for all of you who fly various places around the US and world-

My question is regarding tow operations where launching/landing gliders use one runway end (likely, the end heading into the wind), and the landing towplane uses the opposing runway direction (likely, landing downwind.)

If you're at a club, field, or airport that routinely uses this type of operation-
1. Is it geography that drives this? (eg sloping terrain or obstacles)

My airfield is on a mountain sloped up. There is a height difference of 40M to a 620m Runway.
http://www.sg-dittingen.ch/c/index.php/gruppe/flugplatz


In addition there is trees on the high end. Take-offs usually turn out right before runway end due to noise mitigation. Tailwind is mainly a concern when we tow out heavy or two seat gliders.

The airfield is restricted due to this.

2. Is it efficiency of operation? (eg, the towplane lands downwind and comes to a stop near the launch point, without having to taxi much.)


Yes it works well.
4. In any case, do you have any procedures in place deconflict landing towplane and glider traffic, other than radio call awareness?


The downwind is easily observable from T/O location. In swiss gliding its common to have a "downcircle" area. Its the zone where you arrive and start cicling before you join downwind. The downwind is announced on radio, but its usually obvious. If there is a plane in downwind the towplane waits.

5. At what appx wind magnitude does the operation shift to all launches and landings all done in one direction - what is considered excessive tailwind for your towplane/operation?


We seldom have too much tailwind. More often cross-wind. There i'd say we stop at about 30km/h. depending on the gusts.

6. Is using opposing landings a field policy, or does the operation let the towpilot/launch crew/glider pilots decide it on any given operating day ?


Field Policy.

7. Any other comments or experiences you'd like to relate on opposing-landing operations?

On a winch place I used to glide we also did opposite landings, even towards the grid. Mainly with the school aircraft. Its risky especially if the wheel breaks don't work, which has happens on 2 occasions. But we where highly efficient and managed 35-50 Launches on a two lane winch in a day.

I don't know how representative this all is for other places. Swiss airfields are cramped due to the ground being expensive. There is usually little usable space outside the runway.
  #6  
Old September 11th 15, 06:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,260
Default Opposite Direction Landing Operations - Efficiency? Geography?

On Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 2:58:31 PM UTC-5, LBC wrote:
A question for all of you who fly various places around the US and world-

My question is regarding tow operations where launching/landing gliders use one runway end (likely, the end heading into the wind), and the landing towplane uses the opposing runway direction (likely, landing downwind.)

If you're at a club, field, or airport that routinely uses this type of operation-
1. Is it geography that drives this? (eg sloping terrain or obstacles)


At our strip (H07, east of St Louis), there is a potential midair collision problem on short final to 36 (which has resulted in the past in one midair and one near miss); this is completely eliminated by landing the towplanes on 18 when the winds allow. We prefer to launch on 36 due to clubhouse location, and will accept a small tailwind for takeoffs in that direction.

2. Is it efficiency of operation? (eg, the towplane lands downwind and comes to a stop near the launch point, without having to taxi much.)


Yes, it is considerably more efficient as well as a lot safer, IMO. Just got to be careful on some of those downwind landings!

3. Is it some other reason?


We have a wide field so that the takeoffs and glider landings take place on the west side of field, while the towplane landings take place on the east side (the "actual" runway. That, plus different sides for patterns (gliders on the west, power traffic on the east), provides almost complete deconfliction of towplane and glider traffic in the pattern.

4. In any case, do you have any procedures in place deconflict landing towplane and glider traffic, other than radio call awareness?


Towplane announces on radio, most gliders now have radios. Towplanes will hold if a potential conflict is developing. My preference is to fly a low (500') pattern in the towplane, to help see gliders opposite entering downwind a bit higher.

5. At what appx wind magnitude does the operation shift to all launches and landings all done in one direction - what is considered excessive tailwind for your towplane/operation?


Depends on tow pilot and glider pilot (student, type of glider, etc..) Usually around 5 knots steady will cause a change of runway ops.

6. Is using opposing landings a field policy, or does the operation let the towpilot/launch crew/glider pilots decide it on any given operating day ?


It's up to the tow pilot, but pretty much standard ops and expected.

7. Any other comments or experiences you'd like to relate on opposing-landing operations?


We have a parallel runway, glider-only operation, where it is the safest and most efficient way to operate, IMO. That may not be true in other situations. Common sense required!

Thanks for your insights.


 




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