Glider computers - what's important?

On Mar 8, 12:45 pm, "Richard" wrote:
Mike,

I reread my post but and never saw the word worthless. But now I
will go to my corner and look up the word sufferance.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 11:26 am, "Mike" wrote:



First of all I did not bring up how great free programs were- you
brought up how worthless they are-if you care to check your post. I
mentioned however that XCSOAR is a good program -which it is.

Come on Richard, tell us point by point how superior See You is over
XCSOAR . Prove your point to us-that it is a worthless program-you
know....as you say that it is worth what you pay for it.

Mike

On Mar 8, 11:58 am, "Richard" wrote:

Mike,

First of all you brought up the issue of how great the free programs
are - compared to what? WinPilot and SeeYou simulators are free,
both can be downloaded from my website for evaluation, you only need
the passwords to have a hassel free connection to your GPS.

My biased opinion is the SeeYou and WinPilot are as easy or easier to
use than the free programs, they will be supported in the future, they
allow the new pilot all the features from just flying around the
patch, to badges, records and contest.
The real question is if you own a sailplane how much did you pay for
it and is the cost of one of these programs significant? If it is, I
would suggest a chart with mileage and altutude circles is more cost
effective, I believe you are still required to carry a chart.

I also provide support to those that are considering purchasing
WinPilot or SeeYou from Craggy Aero.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 10:12 am, "Mike" wrote:

Why not do the comparison for us Richard? It is your question after
all. I would like to hear your unbiased report.

Mike

On Mar 8, 10:25 am, "Richard" wrote:

The question is have you compared the free programs with SeeYou or
WinPilot. We would all like to hear your comparison.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 9:16 am, "Mike" wrote:

XCSOAR is a very good program that is easy to use. It takes about one
evening to understand using the "Quick Start" guide in the manual.

Mike

On Mar 8, 9:31 am, "Michael Huber" wrote:

"Richard" wrote

6. Free is a very good price, but generally you get what you pay for,
if anyone finds this not true please let us all know so we all can all
get this free stuff. The best free thing I have found is the SeeYou
Connect Me program.

? GPS-LOG and XCSOAR are free, I´ve never tried XCSOAR, but
GPS-LOG is a great

software.

Michael- Hide quoted text -
You are funny Richard. Lets see your unbiased comparison.
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On Mar 8, 11:45 am, "Richard" wrote:
Mike,

I reread my post but and never saw the word worthless. But now I
will go to my corner and look up the word sufferance.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 11:26 am, "Mike" wrote:

First of all I did not bring up how great free programs were- you
brought up how worthless they are-if you care to check your post. I
mentioned however that XCSOAR is a good program -which it is.

Come on Richard, tell us point by point how superior See You is over
XCSOAR . Prove your point to us-that it is a worthless program-you
know....as you say that it is worth what you pay for it.

Mike

On Mar 8, 11:58 am, "Richard" wrote:

Mike,

First of all you brought up the issue of how great the free programs
are - compared to what? WinPilot and SeeYou simulators are free,
both can be downloaded from my website for evaluation, you only need
the passwords to have a hassel free connection to your GPS.

My biased opinion is the SeeYou and WinPilot are as easy or easier to
use than the free programs, they will be supported in the future, they
allow the new pilot all the features from just flying around the
patch, to badges, records and contest.
The real question is if you own a sailplane how much did you pay for
it and is the cost of one of these programs significant? If it is, I
would suggest a chart with mileage and altutude circles is more cost
effective, I believe you are still required to carry a chart.

I also provide support to those that are considering purchasing
WinPilot or SeeYou from Craggy Aero.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 10:12 am, "Mike" wrote:

Why not do the comparison for us Richard? It is your question after
all. I would like to hear your unbiased report.

Mike

On Mar 8, 10:25 am, "Richard" wrote:

The question is have you compared the free programs with SeeYou or
WinPilot. We would all like to hear your comparison.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 9:16 am, "Mike" wrote:

XCSOAR is a very good program that is easy to use. It takes about one
evening to understand using the "Quick Start" guide in the manual.

Mike

On Mar 8, 9:31 am, "Michael Huber" wrote:

"Richard" wrote

6. Free is a very good price, but generally you get what you pay for,
if anyone finds this not true please let us all know so we all can all
get this free stuff. The best free thing I have found is the SeeYou
Connect Me program.

? GPS-LOG and XCSOAR are free, I´ve never tried XCSOAR, but
GPS-LOG is a great

software.

Michael- Hide quoted text -

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To All:

I have in my iPAQ GN II and WinPilot that my buddy Richard sold me.
Richard is a very nice guy and some of you have misinterpreted his
posting. Now, as I said, I have GN II and WinPilot and I fly with GN
II...why? because I like the simplicity of GN II and the information
available on the screen of my PDA. The WinPilot has a bunch of
features that I don't think I'll ever use or need. There is simply to
much information displayed. But again, we are creatures of habit and I
think that we fly with what we feel most comfortable with. But then
again, download the free simulator and try it. See what you like and
make your own mind. Don't relay 100% on opinions of other pilots.

Jacek
Washington State

On Mar 8, 12:45 pm, "Richard" wrote:
Mike,

I reread my post but and never saw the word worthless. But now I
will go to my corner and look up the word sufferance.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 11:26 am, "Mike" wrote:



First of all I did not bring up how great free programs were- you
brought up how worthless they are-if you care to check your post. I
mentioned however that XCSOAR is a good program -which it is.

Come on Richard, tell us point by point how superior See You is over
XCSOAR . Prove your point to us-that it is a worthless program-you
know....as you say that it is worth what you pay for it.

Mike

On Mar 8, 11:58 am, "Richard" wrote:

Mike,

First of all you brought up the issue of how great the free programs
are - compared to what? WinPilot and SeeYou simulators are free,
both can be downloaded from my website for evaluation, you only need
the passwords to have a hassel free connection to your GPS.

My biased opinion is the SeeYou and WinPilot are as easy or easier to
use than the free programs, they will be supported in the future, they
allow the new pilot all the features from just flying around the
patch, to badges, records and contest.
The real question is if you own a sailplane how much did you pay for
it and is the cost of one of these programs significant? If it is, I
would suggest a chart with mileage and altutude circles is more cost
effective, I believe you are still required to carry a chart.

I also provide support to those that are considering purchasing
WinPilot or SeeYou from Craggy Aero.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 10:12 am, "Mike" wrote:

Why not do the comparison for us Richard? It is your question after
all. I would like to hear your unbiased report.

Mike

On Mar 8, 10:25 am, "Richard" wrote:

The question is have you compared the free programs with SeeYou or
WinPilot. We would all like to hear your comparison.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 9:16 am, "Mike" wrote:

XCSOAR is a very good program that is easy to use. It takes about one
evening to understand using the "Quick Start" guide in the manual.

Mike

On Mar 8, 9:31 am, "Michael Huber" wrote:

"Richard" wrote

6. Free is a very good price, but generally you get what you pay for,
if anyone finds this not true please let us all know so we all can all
get this free stuff. The best free thing I have found is the SeeYou
Connect Me program.

? GPS-LOG and XCSOAR are free, I´ve never tried XCSOAR, but
GPS-LOG is a great

software.

Good idea Richard, and while you are at it, try contemplating the
meaning of your own words.

A lot of time and talent from some very dedicated, large hearted guys
went in to these very functional and free programs. To claim they are
worth zero -what we paid for them(worthless) seems an insult. When you
find the meaning of sufferance, apply it to the guys giving us these
programs, when their hard work is refered to as having no worth.

Let us see your unbiased comparison of XCSOAR and See You.

Mike


Richard,

Good idea! When you find the meaning apply it to the large hearted,
talented guys who have spent so much time providing great support for
soaring with no view for profit, to have their efforts refered to as
having no worth-you know, worth what we paid for it . You may want to
contemplate the meaning of your own words too.

I really would like to see your unbiased comparison of XCSOAR and See
You.

Mike

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Mike wrote "You are funny Richard. Lets see your unbiased comparison"

I will come out of my corner for one more round.

Unbiased! Mike you are looking for something in this newgroup that
is almost nonexistent especially from a sailplane equipment dealer.

And I haven't often been accused of being funny, thanks.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Mar 8, 12:42 pm, "Richard" wrote:
Mike wrote "You are funny Richard. Lets see your unbiased comparison"

I will come out of my corner for one more round.

Unbiased! Mike you are looking for something in this newgroup that
is almost nonexistent especially from a sailplane equipment dealer.

And I haven't often been accused of being funny, thanks.

Richardwww.craggyaero.com

RE-ENGAGING:
Rather than talk about which glide computer program is best... what I
need to know is: What INFORMATION/FEATURES do you experienced guys
find MOST useful in XC soaring. I've done only a very little XC (one
flight, Tonopah - Austin - Tonopah), and what I wanted most during
that flight was an easily interpreted bearing and required glideslope
to known good runways/landlouts. I know that once I have that, I'll
start thinking of other features that would be helpful. The question
is, what features do you find most useful?
thermal optimizer?
FAI triangle thing?
Final glide calculator?
Thermal history?
........

BTW Richard: Loved your Ventus landing!

Jim




Optimizing speed for a task isn't a top priority, I have a relief
system ;-)

On Mar 8, 10:54 am, "Tuno" wrote:
The problem with this is that Condor terrain data sets don't exist
anywhere near the places I fly, and my PDA doesn't have any data for
the places Condor does have.

No. That is not an issue. Read on.

(You can, of course, load up the PDA data.)

There. You have answered your own question. All you need is a
dataset for the terrain you use in Condor. The Condor website has
these data or links to them. Then just turn off the on-screen Condor
PDA (put it in a benign screen mode) and start flying using *just*
your own real PDA and its software. It is a great way to *safely*
learn to use your PDA and its glider software.

-Doug Hoffman

Mike wrote:
Why not do the comparison for us Richard? It is your question after
all. I would like to hear your unbiased report.

It's asking too much of a dealer to give unbiased reports on products he
does not sell, and even it the dealer managed to achieve it, many would
still just assume his monetary interest took priority. So, the dealer
spends a lot of time for very little return.

In fact, it is just plain difficult to write an unbiased report on these
products, even if you aren't selling them. These programs have many
features, most of them in common but with variations, and the value and
appeal of each feature/variation depends a lot on the pilot's
personality, where he flies, what he flies, and how he flies.

It gets worse: a really experienced pilot comparing these products will
write quite a different review than one with moderate experience.

And worse: after a pilot flies with a particular product for year or so,
he'll often find he uses it differently than when he started. Try to
account for that in a review!

So, download the programs and try them in simulator mode. I like the
suggestion to "fly" with it on flight simulator like Condor. And keep in
mind they all do the basics, which it is 80-90% of what most of us need
done.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

RE-ENGAGING:
Rather than talk about which glide computer program is best... what I
need to know is: What INFORMATION/FEATURES do you experienced guys
find MOST useful in XC soaring. I've done only a very little XC (one
flight, Tonopah - Austin - Tonopah), and what I wanted most during
that flight was an easily interpreted bearing and required glideslope
to known good runways/landlouts. I know that once I have that, I'll
start thinking of other features that would be helpful. The question
is, what features do you find most useful?
thermal optimizer?
FAI triangle thing?
Final glide calculator?
Thermal history?
.......

For me, I want to know in real-time exactly how far I can glide in all
directions computed from my polar, McCready setting, ballast, bugs, wind and
terrain elevation. I don't want a list of airports or airports with green
or magenta circles. I want my glide footprint on the moving map. This
tells me a lot about options, alternates and helps with strategy. So far as
I know, only two programs have implemented this GPS_LOG WinCE and XC-Soar.
I use GPS_LOG WinCE which does a better job of it.

While I'm at it, I'd like this feature on SeeYou animationl. That would
make it easier to see exactly what the pilots options were as the flight
progressed.

Bill Daniels

Ahh, PDA's and software...don't let anyone tell you
any of this is 'simple'. You like MS ActiveSync?,
constantly keeping the PDA out of the sun but on a
charger?, trying to read a screen in the sunlight?,
dealing with downloading to the OLC, or worse yet..a
badge claim?


But having said that....you do adapt to them....and
they make us fly faster and farther IMVHO. I recall
a fellow at Boulder one day who was extremely excited
about his new color PDA and the advanced software on
it...I was just passing through and it seemed to me
that with strong lift conditions....he might be flying
rather then on the ground dweebing.

On the flip side there are those who don't want to
go near the things. They do make decision making more
linear in my opinion.

So try the sims...and then analyze your needs....like
most everyone else...you either decide to go more simple,
or more features. Even the simplest are a big help.
Even the most complex can be simplified.

And my favorite axiom on this topic...no 2 glider pilots
in the world have the same software-flight computer-data
logger...configured in the same manner...so you end
up with your own version anyway.

Hi,

I want my glide footprint on the moving map.

This depends very much on accurate terrain elevation data. I am not sure
how good the publicly available data is. It does paint pretty pictures
in any case.

Elevations for airfields are very accurate and those for charted landouts
at least at GPS-accuracy.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de
"Success is the happy feeling you get between the time you
do something and the time you tell a woman what you did."