If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one.
This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago. When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best" Say for Western Great Basin flying. I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it. CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well. FACTORS Reliability Maintenance required to keep it running XC flyability, performance and control feel Storability Rigging Initial cost High density climb performance Range Cockpit layout and seating Parts availability Insurance cost Landing gear complexity Overall quality Nick T |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one. This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago. When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best" Say for Western Great Basin flying. I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it. CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well. FACTORS Reliability Maintenance required to keep it running XC flyability, performance and control feel Storability Rigging Initial cost High density climb performance Range Cockpit layout and seating Parts availability Insurance cost Landing gear complexity Overall quality Nick T Perhaps add current delivery time from order |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 12:19:11 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote: Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one. This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago. When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best" Say for Western Great Basin flying. I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it. CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well. FACTORS Reliability Maintenance required to keep it running XC flyability, performance and control feel Storability Rigging Initial cost High density climb performance Range Cockpit layout and seating Parts availability Insurance cost Landing gear complexity Overall quality Something thats available used this year maybe Not pie in the sky vaporware Nick |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 2:28:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote:
Something thats available used this year maybe Not pie in the sky vaporware Perhaps 2G's 26? |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
Stemme.Â* Except for acquisition cost...
On 9/15/2020 12:34 PM, Dave Nadler wrote: On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 2:28:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote: Something thats available used this year maybe Not pie in the sky vaporware Perhaps 2G's 26? -- Dan, 5J |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 3:59:35 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Stemme. Except for acquisition cost... On 9/15/2020 12:34 PM, Dave Nadler wrote: On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 2:28:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote: Something thats available used this year maybe Not pie in the sky vaporware Perhaps 2G's 26? -- Dan, 5J For a Touring Motorglider, I vote for the Phoenix. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 4:59:35 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Stemme.Â* Except for acquisition cost... On 9/15/2020 12:34 PM, Dave Nadler wrote: On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 2:28:37 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote: Something thats available used this year maybe Not pie in the sky vaporware Perhaps 2G's 26? -- Dan, 5J What about the 'poor man's version' of the Stemme, the Pipistrel Taurus? I am not sure what the deal is reg. the Rotax 503, which according to the Rotax website is no longer in production but they are advertising an E-version.. Side-by-sides rock! ;-) Uli 'AS' |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
Nick Kennedy wrote on 9/15/2020 11:28 AM:
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 12:19:11 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote: On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote: Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one. This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago. When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best" Say for Western Great Basin flying. I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it. CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well. FACTORS Reliability Maintenance required to keep it running XC flyability, performance and control feel Storability Rigging Initial cost High density climb performance Range Cockpit layout and seating Parts availability Insurance cost Landing gear complexity Overall quality Something thats available used this year maybe "Something thats available used this year maybe Not pie in the sky vaporware" That helps narrow the field a bit, but what we really need to know mo -What kind of flying do you intend - recreational, contests, badges, records, safaris (assisted/unassisted)? -what is your price limit? -Are you able and willing to maintain it yourself? -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 6:22:28 AM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Nick Kennedy wrote on 9/15/2020 11:28 AM: On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 12:19:11 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote: On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 1:48:13 PM UTC-4, Nick Kennedy wrote: Didn't want to hijack the current FES tread so I thought I'd start a new one. This topic came up over dinner a couple of weeks ago. When you add all the following into a pot and stir, whats the "Best" Say for Western Great Basin flying. I think it may be the Carat, but I don't know much about it. CX thinks its the DG 800 series, but all I know is since he bought that thing its been a endless battle to keep it running. But it does climb well. FACTORS Reliability Maintenance required to keep it running XC flyability, performance and control feel Storability Rigging Initial cost High density climb performance Range Cockpit layout and seating Parts availability Insurance cost Landing gear complexity Overall quality Something thats available used this year maybe "Something thats available used this year maybe Not pie in the sky vaporware" That helps narrow the field a bit, but what we really need to know mo -What kind of flying do you intend - recreational, contests, badges, records, safaris (assisted/unassisted)? -what is your price limit? -Are you able and willing to maintain it yourself? -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me) - "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation" https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1 I owned a DG400 for a few years, found it to be an excellent performing sailplane , the landing gear was perfectly fine, the engine faultless, and it was great fun to fly. I never needed any engine parts, but no doubt over time I would have. I now own a Sinus Flex. A lot of fun but way too low soaring performance unless you let the engine idle, but then that is not what soaring is about. I agree that the Stemme is too big, too complicated, too expensive, etc. What we need is for a company to build a Sinus, or a Phoenix, or a Katana or any of those similar touring motorgliders with a 4 piece wing that has a 19 or 20 meter span. The outer tips need to come off easily (like my SInus Flex) but when removed the span would be 39 feet so it goes in any hangar. With more than a 15 meter span the soaring performance would likely be close to 40/1 L/D. The 4 stroke Rotax engines are really great, the cost could hardly increase very much, and it would be in the perfect sailplane sweet spot. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Best Overall Motorglider available today?
The Virus/Sinus are low performance and the view out when thermal
turning is appallingly bad. The bubble canopy Taurus is better and in strong conditions seems to go quite well, plus it has a Rotax engine not that heap of junk Solo found in DG800x & others. You'd struggle to call it high performance. The DG400 has the usual DG self collapsing U/C feature. Once you know about this design triumph it's easy to keep the U/C in working order. It's nice to fly and has really good performance in strong conditions; the view out is excellent. The engine parts (at least in EASA land) are not a problem and it's a Rotax not a Solo and it doesn't regularly break its drive belt. The gel coat/finish is excellent, as usual with DG. Dealing with DG as a company was a joy. The engine management man/machine interface is very last century; if you have three arms you will have no problem, it's nearly as bad as many current turbo/self-launch gliders: plenty of scope for finger/brain malfunction. The 400 wing section does NOT like rain or bugs. One of the four Hoteliers (flaperons & air-brakes) is a tricky blind fiddle to fix & secure. Vibration related failures are a known issue: that said my "400" was significantly more reliable than my much newer Solo powered DG808C or my Antares 20E. My choice would be a DG800A (basically a 400 type fuselage/Rotax engine + DG800 type wings). It doesn't like rain or bugs either but is significantly better than the DG400 as a glider. I think all newer DG800x have a vastly improved "one-switch does it all" engine management system that really is very good? I've got lots of hours in someone else's Stemme S10, the Limbach engined one, it was very reliable but the VP propellor overhaul costs were eye watering even 20 years ago. It's a very competent glider but big and heavy, not at its best scraping low on the rocks. I can't think of anything polite to say about Wankel engines... a vibration free engineers nightmare? If economics are at all an issue just buy a proper sailplane and get a tow: it's a FAR FAR cheaper way to fly. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
ASW 20C Motorglider | Nick Kennedy[_3_] | Soaring | 3 | February 7th 19 11:17 AM |
FS: DG-400 Motorglider | 2G | Soaring | 0 | September 20th 13 02:32 PM |
IFR in motorglider? | cp | Soaring | 28 | March 9th 08 12:02 AM |
Motorglider Tug | Ray Lovinggood | Soaring | 21 | November 13th 04 04:06 AM |
motorglider | KsiTau | Soaring | 0 | September 4th 04 09:10 AM |