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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 4th 08, 07:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
Mike[_7_]
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Posts: 111
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says
Aerospace Daily
01/25/2008 , page 12

U.S. Marine Corps Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 263 - the service's first
V-22 Osprey squadron - has been successful in its air operations of Al
Anbar province since arriving in October, the service reports.

The Marines took some heat when they gambled on Osprey development as
an aviation linchpin, and some industry experts wondered if the
aircraft would be able to survive combat operations.

2,000 missions

The squadron has completed more than 2,000 missions in the first three
months of the deployment, keeping about 8,000 people off dangerous
roadways and tallying about 2,000 flight hours, the Marines report.
The tiltrotors have accomplished every mission and met every schedule,
according to the service.

VMM-263 - the "Thunder Chickens" - has flown five Aeroscout missions,
one raid, more than 1,400 combat sorties, and maintained an average
mission capable readiness rate of 68.1 percent during its deployment,
the service reported.

The squad took over the entire range of combat medium-lift assault
support missions in support of Multi-National Forces - West from
Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 363 to include battlefield
circulation, raid and Aeroscout operations, helicopter/tiltrotor
governance, and tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel. The
Ospreys flew everywhere throughout the battlefield from Baghdad to Al
Qaim, providing an operational capability over distance and time that
has "effectively collapsed the battlespace," the Marines say.

'Much appreciated'

"Our area of operations is large and the aircraft's speed and range
has been much-appreciated by many of the folks the squadron has
supported," said Lt. Col. Paul Rock, VMM-263's commanding officer.
"The precision navigation and situational awareness systems in the
aircraft have enhanced our ability to perform desert landings in
brownout conditions."

During brownout, the MV-22's unique hover capability significantly
increases the safety of troops in the execution of combat missions,
enabling troops to deploy at precisely the desired coordinates, the
Marines said.

"The aircraft has performed better than expected," said Cpl. Daniel
Stratman, a VMM-263 crew chief. "We haven't had to replace any major
parts like prop boxes or anything; the main problem out here is
getting the parts for this aircraft. We can fix just about anything,
the only thing that slows us down is getting the parts."
  #2  
Old February 4th 08, 08:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 301
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Feb 4, 1:45 pm, Mike wrote:
V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says
Aerospace Daily
01/25/2008 , page 12

U.S. Marine Corps Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 263 - the service's first
V-22 Osprey squadron - has been successful in its air operations of Al
Anbar province since arriving in October, the service reports.

The Marines took some heat when they gambled on Osprey development as
an aviation linchpin, and some industry experts wondered if the
aircraft would be able to survive combat operations.

2,000 missions

The squadron has completed more than 2,000 missions in the first three
months of the deployment, keeping about 8,000 people off dangerous
roadways and tallying about 2,000 flight hours, the Marines report.
The tiltrotors have accomplished every mission and met every schedule,
according to the service.

VMM-263 - the "Thunder Chickens" - has flown five Aeroscout missions,
one raid, more than 1,400 combat sorties, and maintained an average
mission capable readiness rate of 68.1 percent during its deployment,
the service reported.

The squad took over the entire range of combat medium-lift assault
support missions in support of Multi-National Forces - West from
Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 363 to include battlefield
circulation, raid and Aeroscout operations, helicopter/tiltrotor
governance, and tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel. The
Ospreys flew everywhere throughout the battlefield from Baghdad to Al
Qaim, providing an operational capability over distance and time that
has "effectively collapsed the battlespace," the Marines say.

'Much appreciated'

"Our area of operations is large and the aircraft's speed and range
has been much-appreciated by many of the folks the squadron has
supported," said Lt. Col. Paul Rock, VMM-263's commanding officer.
"The precision navigation and situational awareness systems in the
aircraft have enhanced our ability to perform desert landings in
brownout conditions."

During brownout, the MV-22's unique hover capability significantly
increases the safety of troops in the execution of combat missions,
enabling troops to deploy at precisely the desired coordinates, the
Marines said.

"The aircraft has performed better than expected," said Cpl. Daniel
Stratman, a VMM-263 crew chief. "We haven't had to replace any major
parts like prop boxes or anything; the main problem out here is
getting the parts for this aircraft. We can fix just about anything,
the only thing that slows us down is getting the parts."


In Iraq, Osprey Rocks the Cynics
Dallas Morning News
January 07, 2008

ANBAR PROVINCE, Iraq - On a clear, cool December morning, two odd-
looking military aircraft zip along 8,000 feet above the empty desert
of western Iraq, preparing to perform a feat worthy of science
fiction.

As the V-22 Ospreys approach their dusty destination, a lonely Marine
Corps outpost near the Syrian border, each craft's huge wingtip
rotors, now serving as propellers, will steadily tilt upward - and in
effect turn the two airplanes into helicopters to land.

Over the past three months, the Osprey's trick of transforming itself
has become an everyday sight over Anbar province, where 10 of the
Texas-built tiltrotor transports have been flying in a combat zone for
the first time in the V-22's tumultuous 24-year history.

So far, the Osprey has defied the dire predictions of its most severe
critics. Citing the V-22's record of four crashes and 30 deaths in
test flights prior to 2001, some foes of the tiltrotor forecast more
crashes and deaths in Iraq.

As of Dec. 28, three months through a scheduled seven-month
deployment, the 23 pilots of Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 263,
known as VMM-263, had logged 1,639 hours of flight time in Iraq,
carried 6,826 passengers and delivered 631,837 pounds of cargo without
a mishap or even a close call.

That's good news not only for the Marines but also for Bell Helicopter
Textron Inc. of Fort Worth, Texas, and Boeing Co.'s helicopter
division, near Philadelphia, which make the Osprey in a 50-50
partnership. About 2,500 Bell employees work on the Osprey in Fort
Worth and Amarillo, where V-22s are assembled.

The Marines plan to buy 360 Ospreys in all. The Air Force is set to
purchase 50 and may buy more, for special operations. The companies
hope to sell dozens more to the Navy and potential foreign customers
as well. An unsuccessful first V-22 deployment could torpedo those
sales.

Headquartered at Al Asad, an isolated air base in the desert about 110
miles west of Baghdad, VMM-263's Ospreys spent their first two months
in Iraq largely flying "general support" missions - hauling troops and
supplies to and from forward operating bases.

"As long as they keep using it like a truck, I think they'll probably
be okay," said Philip Coyle, a former Pentagon weapons testing
director and a longtime Osprey critic.

In December, VMM-263 began to take on riskier tasks.

On Dec. 6, two of the Ospreys carried 24 combat-loaded Marines and 24
Iraqi troops on a raid near Lake Tharthar, 150 miles north of Baghdad,
to look for suspected insurgents.

"It turned out to be a dry hole, there was nothing there," said Capt.
Drew Norris, 30, of Dallas, a graduate of Jesuit College Preparatory
School and Texas A&M University who was one of the pilots on the raid.
As for the flight, he said, "It went off without a hitch."

Two days later, two Ospreys were included for the first time in a well-
established mission called "aeroscout," a sort of roving raid in which
troops aboard helicopters search for insurgents by air. The ground
troops commander scrubbed the mission when one Osprey needed to turn
back to base because one of its four generators failed.

The generator failure is symptomatic of one big question hanging over
the Osprey in Iraq: is the $70 million aircraft reliable enough, or
does it "break" too often?

One of the squadron's 10 Ospreys had to land in Jordan on the way into
Iraq in October and spend a couple of days there being fixed after a
wiring problem led the pilots to make a precautionary landing. Others
have been grounded for days at a time for similar problems in Iraq.

"That's the kind of thing that has plagued the Osprey, reliability
failures of one kind or another," Coyle said.


VMM-263 brought 14 contractor technicians with them to help deal with
such problems, and the Marine Corps and contractors have taken pains
to make sure the squadron gets all the parts it needs.

The squadron's readiness rate in Iraq - how many aircraft are ready to
fly - has varied from as low as 50 percent to 100 percent on a given
day, said Chief Warrant Officer 2 Carlos Rios, maintenance material
control chief. But the key question is whether enough aircraft are
available for the missions the squadron is assigned, he said.

Lt. Col. Paul Rock, commander of VMM-263, said his squadron had been
forced to turn down taskings for lack of aircraft only "one or two
days" during its first two months in Iraq.

In addition to flying troops and supplies, meanwhile, the Ospreys have
become a favorite way to fly for VIPs, such as generals who need a
fast way to get to the Marines' forward operating bases, which have no
runways. Anbar is roughly the size of South Carolina.

The Osprey can take off and land like a helicopter but tilts its
rotors all the way forward to fly like an airplane. That lets it fly
more than twice as fast and far as the CH-46 Sea Knight helicopters
the Marines are buying it to replace. It cruises thousands of feet
higher than helicopters do, as well.


The debate over the V-22 is far from over, though, in part because
while the Osprey is flying in a combat zone, there isn't much actual
combat in their zone these days.

When the Marines decided to send the Osprey to Iraq, Anbar was the
hotbed of the Sunni Muslim insurgency that wracked Iraq after the U.S.-
led invasion of 2003. By the time the squadron arrived in October,
Sunni rebels had turned against the jihadists affiliated with al-Qaida
and have been helping rather than attacking U.S. forces.

Through mid-December, none of VMM-263's pilots had reported any
evidence of being shot at, though some had seen tracer rounds well
below them while flying at night.

Under the circumstances, some critics might say that the Osprey isn't
really being tested, but "people are too impatient," said V-22
advocate Loren Thompson, a defense analyst with the Lexington
Institute, a Washington think tank with close ties to the defense
industry.

"The kind of harrowing operations that people anticipated haven't
occurred so far, but what we're learning about the V-22 in Iraq is
that it can operate every day, it can perform a wide range of
missions, and - at least so far - it does not have deficient
reliability," he said. "However, there's a long way to go before we
grasp the potential of this aircraft. This is just the beginning."
  #3  
Old February 5th 08, 12:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
Mr.Smartypants[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Feb 4, 12:53*pm, Jack Linthicum
wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:45 pm, Mike wrote:





V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says
Aerospace Daily
01/25/2008 , page 12




No one has really shot at them yet.

They'll be sitting ducks when in transition mode.

  #4  
Old February 5th 08, 03:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
[email protected][_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Feb 5, 6:07*am, "Mr.Smartypants" wrote:
On Feb 4, 12:53*pm, Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:45 pm, Mike wrote:


V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says
Aerospace Daily
01/25/2008 , page 12


No one has really shot at them yet.

They'll be sitting ducks when in transition mode.


Moreso than a hovering helicopter?
  #5  
Old February 5th 08, 03:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval,us.military.army
Bill Kambic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 06:02:02 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 5, 6:07*am, "Mr.Smartypants" wrote:
On Feb 4, 12:53*pm, Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Feb 4, 1:45 pm, Mike wrote:


V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says
Aerospace Daily
01/25/2008 , page 12


No one has really shot at them yet.

They'll be sitting ducks when in transition mode.


Moreso than a hovering helicopter?


Or a serene blimp? badabing-badaboom

  #6  
Old February 5th 08, 03:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
Typhoon502
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 62
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Feb 5, 9:02*am, " wrote:
On Feb 5, 6:07*am, "Mr.Smartypants" wrote:

No one has really shot at them yet.


They'll be sitting ducks when in transition mode.


* * Moreso than a hovering helicopter?


That's helicopter mode. Mr. Smartypants thinks that somehow the
transition state, when the nacelles are neither horizontal nor
vertical, is something scary. The fact is, during transition, the
aircraft retains enough forward velocity to make the wings generate
useful lift, and if the pilot needs to lay on speed, those nacelles
can drop and those big blades can get that bird moving in a hurry.

Also, V-22 structures have been shot plenty of times in the test
phase. Its ability to take hits is not some nebulous unknown quantity.
  #7  
Old February 5th 08, 03:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 301
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Feb 5, 9:10 am, Typhoon502 wrote:
On Feb 5, 9:02 am, " wrote:

On Feb 5, 6:07 am, "Mr.Smartypants" wrote:


No one has really shot at them yet.


They'll be sitting ducks when in transition mode.


Moreso than a hovering helicopter?


That's helicopter mode. Mr. Smartypants thinks that somehow the
transition state, when the nacelles are neither horizontal nor
vertical, is something scary. The fact is, during transition, the
aircraft retains enough forward velocity to make the wings generate
useful lift, and if the pilot needs to lay on speed, those nacelles
can drop and those big blades can get that bird moving in a hurry.

Also, V-22 structures have been shot plenty of times in the test
phase. Its ability to take hits is not some nebulous unknown quantity.


Cite
  #8  
Old February 5th 08, 03:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
[email protected][_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Feb 5, 9:12*am, Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Feb 5, 9:10 am, Typhoon502 wrote:





On Feb 5, 9:02 am, " wrote:


On Feb 5, 6:07 am, "Mr.Smartypants" wrote:


No one has really shot at them yet.


They'll be sitting ducks when in transition mode.


* * Moreso than a hovering helicopter?


That's helicopter mode. Mr. Smartypants thinks that somehow the
transition state, when the nacelles are neither horizontal nor
vertical, is something scary. The fact is, during transition, the
aircraft retains enough forward velocity to make the wings generate
useful lift, and if the pilot needs to lay on speed, those nacelles
can drop and those big blades can get that bird moving in a hurry.


Also, V-22 structures have been shot plenty of times in the test
phase. Its ability to take hits is not some nebulous unknown quantity.


Cite-


http://www.navair.navy.mil/V22/index....detail&id=170
  #9  
Old February 5th 08, 03:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 301
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Feb 5, 9:25 am, " wrote:
On Feb 5, 9:12 am, Jack Linthicum wrote:



On Feb 5, 9:10 am, Typhoon502 wrote:


On Feb 5, 9:02 am, " wrote:


On Feb 5, 6:07 am, "Mr.Smartypants" wrote:


No one has really shot at them yet.


They'll be sitting ducks when in transition mode.


Moreso than a hovering helicopter?


That's helicopter mode. Mr. Smartypants thinks that somehow the
transition state, when the nacelles are neither horizontal nor
vertical, is something scary. The fact is, during transition, the
aircraft retains enough forward velocity to make the wings generate
useful lift, and if the pilot needs to lay on speed, those nacelles
can drop and those big blades can get that bird moving in a hurry.


Also, V-22 structures have been shot plenty of times in the test
phase. Its ability to take hits is not some nebulous unknown quantity.


Cite-


http://www.navair.navy.mil/V22/index....detail&id=170


This paragraph

"But what if the aircraft is hit by enemy fire? How vulnerable is it?
The MV-22 has undergone an extensive live fire test and evaluation
(LFT&E) program consisting of no less than 60 test events and totaling
more than 592 ballistic test firings (more than any aircraft in
Department of Defense history). All flight control actuators were
proven to be resistant to light antiaircraft artillery armor piercing
incendiary (API) at 90 percent muzzle velocity. During tests of the
wing structure, multiple 23mm (API and high-explosive incendiary
(HEI)) shots failed to compromise the load carrying integrity of the
wing. Portions of the structure were actually determined to be
invulnerable to all API and HEI projectiles up to and including 23mm.
Overall the LFT&E effort determined that the probability of an
aircraft kill (given a hit) was significantly less than that of
existing helicopters."

reads just like the discounted first few. I would like to see a nice
unclassified test and evaluation report, even a document number, that
tells me this has elements of the truth in it and is not some
Henderson Hall flack making up war stories.
  #10  
Old February 5th 08, 04:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.military, rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval, us.military.army
[email protected][_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default "V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"

On Feb 5, 9:58*am, Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Feb 5, 9:25 am, " wrote:





On Feb 5, 9:12 am, Jack Linthicum wrote:


On Feb 5, 9:10 am, Typhoon502 wrote:


On Feb 5, 9:02 am, " wrote:


On Feb 5, 6:07 am, "Mr.Smartypants" wrote:


No one has really shot at them yet.


They'll be sitting ducks when in transition mode.


* * Moreso than a hovering helicopter?


That's helicopter mode. Mr. Smartypants thinks that somehow the
transition state, when the nacelles are neither horizontal nor
vertical, is something scary. The fact is, during transition, the
aircraft retains enough forward velocity to make the wings generate
useful lift, and if the pilot needs to lay on speed, those nacelles
can drop and those big blades can get that bird moving in a hurry.


Also, V-22 structures have been shot plenty of times in the test
phase. Its ability to take hits is not some nebulous unknown quantity.


Cite-


http://www.navair.navy.mil/V22/index....detail&id=170


This paragraph

"But what if the aircraft is hit by enemy fire? How vulnerable is it?
The MV-22 has undergone an extensive live fire test and evaluation
(LFT&E) program consisting of no less than 60 test events and totaling
more than 592 ballistic test firings (more than any aircraft in
Department of Defense history). All flight control actuators were
proven to be resistant to light antiaircraft artillery armor piercing
incendiary (API) at 90 percent muzzle velocity. During tests of the
wing structure, multiple 23mm (API and high-explosive incendiary
(HEI)) shots failed to compromise the load carrying integrity of the
wing. Portions of the structure were actually determined to be
invulnerable to all API and HEI projectiles up to and including 23mm.
Overall the LFT&E effort determined that the probability of an
aircraft kill (given a hit) was significantly less than that of
existing helicopters."
reads just like the discounted first few. I would like to see a nice

unclassified test and evaluation report, even a document number, that
tells me this has elements of the truth in it and is not some
Henderson Hall flack making up war stories.


I don't know....helicopters are not known for their survivability,
so the standard isn't necessarilly all that high. The Osprey can go
faster, higher, and longer with a greater payload. If it's just as
serviceable and survivable as a helicopter, it's a step forward.
 




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