IFR hold short line at uncontrolled airports?

Today I dropped an Angel Flight patient off at Massena, NY (KMSS), an
uncontrolled airport in the very north portion of NY state. The weather
was 50 feet above minimums and the ILS was the only way in.

Once the patient was safely in the warm terminal, I preflighting and
started up, only to learned that there was an Air Midwest B1900 ten
minutes out. Flight Service could not release me until the B1900 was
down and canceled IFR.

To ensure that I was ready to go, I taxied to the departure end and
performed the pre-takeoff checklist. Then it hit me. There was no ILS
hold short line marked, yet weather was right at minimums and I was sure
I was beyond the ILS transmitter tower.

So as not to potentially interfere with the ILS signal, I turned around
and taxied back to what I believe was the transmitter tower (it was
dark) and waited for the aircraft to land.

Did I overreact, or should there be ILS hold short lines at uncontrolled
airports with ILS approaches?

--
Peter







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If there's a need for you to hold at a certain point they will put the lines
and the signs on the taxiway. If there's no need then there won't be any.
In your case you didn't need to move. You were fine where you were.


"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Today I dropped an Angel Flight patient off at Massena, NY (KMSS), an
uncontrolled airport in the very north portion of NY state. The weather
was 50 feet above minimums and the ILS was the only way in.

Once the patient was safely in the warm terminal, I preflighting and
started up, only to learned that there was an Air Midwest B1900 ten
minutes out. Flight Service could not release me until the B1900 was
down and canceled IFR.

To ensure that I was ready to go, I taxied to the departure end and
performed the pre-takeoff checklist. Then it hit me. There was no ILS
hold short line marked, yet weather was right at minimums and I was sure
I was beyond the ILS transmitter tower.

So as not to potentially interfere with the ILS signal, I turned around
and taxied back to what I believe was the transmitter tower (it was
dark) and waited for the aircraft to land.

Did I overreact, or should there be ILS hold short lines at uncontrolled
airports with ILS approaches?

--
Peter







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Peter R. wrote:
: Did I overreact, or should there be ILS hold short lines at uncontrolled
: airports with ILS approaches?

What you did was most likely not necessary, as I'm sure if the hold short line
was required it would have been there. Just as a datapoint, however, an untowered
airport near here (PSK) has an ILS with an ILS hold short. It's not just for towered
fields.

-Cory

--
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In article , Peter R.
writes:

So as not to potentially interfere with the ILS signal, I turned around
and taxied back to what I believe was the transmitter tower (it was
dark) and waited for the aircraft to land.

Did I overreact, or should there be ILS hold short lines at uncontrolled
airports with ILS approaches?

I don't think you over reacted tho it probably (not for damn sure) was not
necessary. That sort of consideration is mostly missing in todays world and I
salute you for doing the extra. You'll never know but with that ceiling you
may just be partially responsible for his safe landing!!

Chuck

Peter R. wrote:

Today I dropped an Angel Flight patient off at Massena, NY (KMSS), an
uncontrolled airport in the very north portion of NY state. The weather
was 50 feet above minimums and the ILS was the only way in.

Once the patient was safely in the warm terminal, I preflighting and
started up, only to learned that there was an Air Midwest B1900 ten
minutes out. Flight Service could not release me until the B1900 was
down and canceled IFR.

To ensure that I was ready to go, I taxied to the departure end and
performed the pre-takeoff checklist. Then it hit me. There was no ILS
hold short line marked, yet weather was right at minimums and I was sure
I was beyond the ILS transmitter tower.

So as not to potentially interfere with the ILS signal, I turned around
and taxied back to what I believe was the transmitter tower (it was
dark) and waited for the aircraft to land.

Did I overreact, or should there be ILS hold short lines at uncontrolled
airports with ILS approaches?


The ILS antenna doesn't know if the field has a control tower or not.
If an ILS hold is needed, then the taxiway would be marked.


Matt

Matt Whiting ) wrote:

The ILS antenna doesn't know if the field has a control tower or not.
If an ILS hold is needed, then the taxiway would be marked.

And conversely, if ILS hold short lines are needed at most towered
airports, why are they not needed everywhere? What makes certain ILS
arrangements prone to interference and others not?

It seems to me that any ILS antenna that can be passed by an aircraft on
a taxiway would be prone to interference.

--
Peter












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"Peter R." wrote in message =
...
Matt Whiting ) wrote:=20
=20
The ILS antenna doesn't know if the field has a control tower or =
not.=20
If an ILS hold is needed, then the taxiway would be marked.
=20
And conversely, if ILS hold short lines are needed at most towered=20
airports, why are they not needed everywhere? What makes certain ILS=20
arrangements prone to interference and others not? =20
=20
It seems to me that any ILS antenna that can be passed by an aircraft =
on=20
a taxiway would be prone to interference.
--=20
Peter
=20

Since the glideslope antenna pattern relies upon ground reflections,
it is easy to see why ILS hold-short lines can be needed where taxiways
are on the same side of the runway as the glideslope antennas.
Large blobs of metal, moving or not, can disturb those ground =
reflections.

Taxiways opposite the glideslope-antenna side are more likely to be
free of the ILS hold-short restrictions. It just depends upon the =
geometry.
---JRC---

John R. Copeland ) wrote:

Taxiways opposite the glideslope-antenna side are more likely to be
free of the ILS hold-short restrictions. It just depends upon the geometry.

OK, that may be the information I lacked. Thanks.

--
Peter












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Peter R. wrote:

Matt Whiting ) wrote:


The ILS antenna doesn't know if the field has a control tower or not.
If an ILS hold is needed, then the taxiway would be marked.


And conversely, if ILS hold short lines are needed at most towered
airports, why are they not needed everywhere? What makes certain ILS
arrangements prone to interference and others not?

It seems to me that any ILS antenna that can be passed by an aircraft on
a taxiway would be prone to interference.


I suspect it has to do with the location of the antenna. I don't they
they are all located in exactly the same spot WRT to the runway.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...



I suspect it has to do with the location of the antenna. I don't they
they are all located in exactly the same spot WRT to the runway.

The glideslopes are as they are all positioned to bring you to the same spot
on every runway. The localizer is sited so it is a certain width at the
approach end of the runway, therefore they will move the localizer antenna
closer to or farther away from the departure end of the runway to achieve
that.