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New intsrument rating PTS



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 27th 04, 05:13 PM
C J Campbell
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Default New intsrument rating PTS

There is just about a month before the new instrument rating PTS takes
effect on October 1. This is a major re-write with standards for GPS and
autopilot coupled approaches (now required if the aircraft is equipped),
guidelines for partial panel approaches in aircraft with glass cockpits, and
mandatory items to be covered during an instrument proficiency check. Many
old requirements have been eliminated: steep turns, stalls, unusual attitude
recoveries, etc.

If you are a CFII or instrument student you should be getting up to speed on
this new PTS now.

--
Christopher J. Campbell
World Famous Flight Instructor
Port Orchard, WA


If you go around beating the Bush, don't complain if you rile the animals.



  #2  
Old August 27th 04, 05:30 PM
Cecil Chapman
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"C J Campbell" wrote in message
Many old requirements have been eliminated: steep turns, stalls, unusual
attitude recoveries, etc.


Sounds good, for the most part, though I would question the elimination of
the unusual attitude recoveries (though I must say that it never gave me any
trouble for either the Private or Instrument training/checkride - so maybe
that is what the Feds are thinking,,, most people have no trouble with it
when tested so why have it'?' may be their rationale).

Will be kind of curious to hear the take of the CFII's (like yourself) in
this newsgroup on this new change.



--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -


  #3  
Old August 27th 04, 05:42 PM
Roy Smith
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Default

In article ,
"Cecil Chapman" wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
Many old requirements have been eliminated: steep turns, stalls, unusual
attitude recoveries, etc.


Sounds good, for the most part, though I would question the elimination of
the unusual attitude recoveries (though I must say that it never gave me any
trouble for either the Private or Instrument training/checkride - so maybe
that is what the Feds are thinking,,, most people have no trouble with it
when tested so why have it'?' may be their rationale).

Will be kind of curious to hear the take of the CFII's (like yourself) in
this newsgroup on this new change.



--


I agree. I don't see much point in the stalls and steep turns, but the
unusual attitude recoveries seem quite relevant. Most of us are flying
behind the same vacuum gyros that have been in planes for decades. If
you don't catch a failure quick enough, you'll be in a U/A and it would
be nice to be able to fix the problem.

In many ways, the new navigation systems (i.e. GPS with fancy flight
plan features) reduce workload, but they also have the capability to
increase it when having to do things like program in-flight reroutes or
diversions. That's a lot of time diverted from watching the gyros and
thus the potential for a U/A developing. And, of course, runaway or
mis-programmed autopilots have the potential to put you in an U/A too.
  #4  
Old August 27th 04, 06:48 PM
Ryan Ferguson
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C J Campbell wrote:
There is just about a month before the new instrument rating PTS takes
effect on October 1. This is a major re-write with standards for GPS and
autopilot coupled approaches (now required if the aircraft is equipped),
guidelines for partial panel approaches in aircraft with glass cockpits, and
mandatory items to be covered during an instrument proficiency check. Many
old requirements have been eliminated: steep turns, stalls, unusual attitude
recoveries, etc.


Unusual attitude recoveries have not been eliminated. They remain in
the 4D instrument rating PTS, area of operation IV, task B.

Also, while stalls and steep turns, as specific tasks, *have* been
eliminated from the PTS, read this statement on page 14:

"Emphasis on Attitude Instrument Flying and Emergency Instrument Procedures

The FAA is concerned about numerous fatal aircraft accidents involving
spatial disorientation of instrument-rated pilots who have attempted to
control and maneuver their aircraft in clouds with inoperative primary
flight instruments (gyroscopic heading and/or attitude indicators) or
loss of the primary electronic flight instruments display. ***AREA OF
OPERATION IV requires the evaluation of basic instrument flight
maneuvers under both full-panel and references to backup primary flight
instruments/electronic flight instrument displays. These maneuvers are
described in detail in FAA-H-8083-15, Instrument Flying Handbook.***
Examiners should determine that the applicant demonstrates competency in
either the PRIMARY and SUPPORTING or the CONTROL and PERFORMACE[sic]
CONCEPT method of instrument flying. Either attitude instrument flying
method is described in FAA-H-8083-15 and is recommended by the FAA
because it requires specific knowledge and interpretation of each
individual instrument during training. The FAA has stressed that it is
imperative for instrument pilots to acquire and maintain adequate
instrument skills and that they be capable of performing instrument
flight with the use of the backup systems installed in the aircraft.
Many light aircraft operated in IMC are not equipped with dual,
independent, gyroscopic heading and/or attitude indicators and in many
cases are equipped with only a single-vacuum source. Technically
advanced aircraft may be equipped with backup flight instruments or an
additional electronic flight display that is not located directly in
front of the pilot."

Now I don't claim to know, but since stalls and steep turns are
described in H-8083-15, I wonder if some examiners and inspectors would
take that to mean they're still fair game under IV.A.

If you are a CFII or instrument student you should be getting up to speed on
this new PTS now.


Indubitably!

-Ryan
ATP, CFI (airplanes, helicopters)
  #5  
Old August 27th 04, 10:19 PM
C J Campbell
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Default


"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
Many old requirements have been eliminated: steep turns, stalls, unusual
attitude recoveries, etc.


Sounds good, for the most part, though I would question the elimination of
the unusual attitude recoveries


Yeah, I meant to delete that reference. Unusual attitude recoveries are
still required.


  #6  
Old August 27th 04, 11:22 PM
Michael
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"C J Campbell" wrote
mandatory items to be covered during an instrument proficiency check


This is not new. 8081-4C has had a list of mandatory items to be
covered in an IPC, and that became effective in '99 with Change 2.
Yes, I realize some people claim it wasn't mandatory before, but I
think the article in the designee update
(http://av-info.faa.gov/data/designee...du_jul2004.pdf) pretty
much settles that issue.

Many
old requirements have been eliminated: steep turns, stalls, unusual attitude
recoveries, etc.


When were stalls required? They're not in 8081-4C that I can find,
and that dates back to '98. AFAIK, these are only required at the ATP
level.

Unusual attitude recoveries are alive and well, Area of Operation IV,
Task B.

Basic attitude instrument flying maneuvers are now combined into one
task rather than being broken down into individual tasks, but they are
still required. The new guidance is to test them as part of other
maneuvers, but the examiner always had the discretion to do so, and in
my experience most do.

Which leaves us with steep turns. Near as I can tell, that's the only
thing that has been eliminated.

Michael
  #7  
Old August 28th 04, 04:44 AM
Stan Prevost
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When I take on a new instrument student, pretty early we have a simulator
(PCATD) session in which I induce a vacuum failure. Without fail, they get
into an unusual attitude and spiral in. It scares the hell out of them, and
some humility creeps in. They pay attention to unusual attitude recovery
training after that.

When I do IPCs, I usually find that pilots don't pull the throttle when
recognizing a high-speed dive, and they don't recognize that the airplane
will climb on its own if they just level the wings with coordinated
controls.

Right after getting my instrument rating, I made a solo flight into the
muck. After being surprised by an impromptu ATC hold at a VOR only a mile
or so away, I foolishly started trying to set up the GPS for the hold,
rather than just using the VOR. High workload and task fixation. Pretty
quickly I found myself in a spiral dive. I recovered fine, but it was
scary. Ever since, I have placed a high value on unusual attitude recovery
training.

Stan


"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
Many old requirements have been eliminated: steep turns, stalls, unusual
attitude recoveries, etc.


Sounds good, for the most part, though I would question the elimination of
the unusual attitude recoveries (though I must say that it never gave me

any
trouble for either the Private or Instrument training/checkride - so maybe
that is what the Feds are thinking,,, most people have no trouble with it
when tested so why have it'?' may be their rationale).

Will be kind of curious to hear the take of the CFII's (like yourself) in
this newsgroup on this new change.



--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL
Student-IASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -




 




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