Wow

wrote in :


We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=phpOltUWB.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it straight"
when they land, like this guy did, show em this...



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=phpOltUWB.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it straight"
when they land, like this guy did, show em this...



Bertie

I just sent this out this afternoon to our human factors people as an
example of how deeply a pilot has to fly into a problem before realizing
it isn't going to solve using existing control authority.
Absolutely amazing! This guy is on the way to a memo from the Chief
Pilot's office fairly soon I would imagine.
Glad they made it out of there.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=536882887
&filename=phpOltUWB
.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...



Bertie

I just sent this out this afternoon to our human factors people as an
example of how deeply a pilot has to fly into a problem before
realizing it isn't going to solve using existing control authority.
Absolutely amazing! This guy is on the way to a memo from the Chief
Pilot's office fairly soon I would imagine.
Glad they made it out of there.


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the wing
down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how to do a
crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many airline pilots
beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly, they get away with it.
The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that bad. From the drift angle,
I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under thirty knots and steady. Well
within the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in trouble until the
flare.

Bertie

Bertie

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ...
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=phpOltUWB.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em
this... Bertie

I just sent this out this afternoon to our human factors people as an example of how deeply a pilot has to fly into a
problem before realizing it isn't going to solve using existing control authority.
Absolutely amazing! This guy is on the way to a memo from the Chief Pilot's office fairly soon I would imagine.
Glad they made it out of there.

--
Dudley Henriques


In the still shot, I am amazed at the lack of control deflection. Looks like just a little right aileron and apparently
no rudder. I wonder, due to the gusting conditions, if the FBW in the 320 is damping the pilot inputs?

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ...


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the wing
down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how to do a
crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many airline pilots
beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly, they get away with it.
The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that bad. From the drift angle,
I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under thirty knots and steady. Well
within the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in trouble until the
flare.

Bertie

Bertie

Sounded gusty in the audio of the video...

"Blueskies" wrote in
et:


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.file?id=536882887
&filename=phpOltUW
B.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this... Bertie

I just sent this out this afternoon to our human factors people as an
example of how deeply a pilot has to fly into a problem before
realizing it isn't going to solve using existing control authority.
Absolutely amazing! This guy is on the way to a memo from the Chief
Pilot's office fairly soon I would imagine. Glad they made it out of
there.

--
Dudley Henriques


In the still shot, I am amazed at the lack of control deflection.
Looks like just a little right aileron and apparently no rudder. I
wonder, due to the gusting conditions, if the FBW in the 320 is
damping the pilot inputs?


Well, up high it would be, but (and I don't fly a FBW Bus) the controls
go to "direct law" by degrees when it gets close to the ground and it
begins to fly just like an airplane. I know a couple of A 320 dirvers
and will ask -em when I see -em, but i think he was just trying to
handle the crosswind the way he always did, by plunking it down at
kicking t straight. THis time the conditions didn't let him away with
it.


Bertie

"Blueskies" wrote in
. net:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...


Well, he doesn't appear to have made any effort towards putting the
wing down at all. Not his fault.He was obviously never taught how to
do a crosswind landing properly. You'd be amazed at how many airline
pilots beleive that this is the way to do it... Mostly, they get away
with it. The crosswind doesn't appear to be all that bad. From the
drift angle, I'd reckon the max compnenet to be under thirty knots
and steady. Well within the airplane's capability. He wasn't realy in
trouble until the flare.

Bertie

Bertie

Sounded gusty in the audio of the video...

Wel, the airplane is steady on the approach, so while there are surely
little variations in the wind, really gusty conditions would have either
the pilot or autopilot manipulating the airplane a bit more than that. He's
fine til he tries to kick it straight.



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=phpOltUWB.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it straight"
when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Watched the video and it looked like he tried to
kick it straight with the ailerons instead of the
rudder. Am I missing something?

Jim Stewart wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...name=phpOltUWB
.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Watched the video and it looked like he tried to
kick it straight with the ailerons instead of the
rudder. Am I missing something?


Well, it looks to me he just tried to kick it straight with the rudder. The
roll/yaw couple would have rolled him left and he was drifting when he
touched down, which would have added to the roll left. he appears to have
some right aileron in during that first left yaw, in fact, though it's a
little hard to see
Point is, kicking it straight doesn't really work. It's a neccesary evil in
some jets ( the A 320 isn't one of them) but remains an inferior method of
controlling an airplane in a crosswind.

Bertie

"Jim Stewart" wrote in message
.. .
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in :

We had a couple of very windy days over here in Europe.
Look at a crosswind landing of an A320 at HAM, a near crash:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddb_1204404185

Nice pic:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...=phpOltUWB.jpg



Next time someone tries to tell you that airliners just "kick it
straight" when they land, like this guy did, show em this...

Watched the video and it looked like he tried to
kick it straight with the ailerons instead of the
rudder. Am I missing something?

You can't generate much yaw with aileron. The pilot did generate a fair
amount of left yaw (either using rudder or the left brake), which (combined
with the crosswind) gave him a nasty left roll. It looked like he applied a
lot of right aileron before he drug the wingtip, but it wasn't enough. A
boot full of right rudder at that point might have kept him from dragging
the wingtip, but that would have worsened his already bad runway alignment
problem.

KB