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#221
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Gasohol
"Blueskies" writes:
-- Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun intended) in the oil business... {please trim your quotes...} We didn't {it was a Marketing function} but yes. Sunoco was the most visible; their pump took both base [86 octane, ISTM] and high test & you set the ratio before lifting the nozzle. Others did so in a less obvious manner. Most of the ''magic'' is marketing hype. It used to be "spot" gas [aka noname] was dubious; maybe old, etc.. Since fuel injected cars took over; IMHO 99.99% of gas is all the same, save the uniform on the attendent. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#222
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Gasohol
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:15:25 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote: "Morgans" writes: The pipeline people send many various grades of gas, all through the same pipeline. They may send 95 octane straight gas for 4 hours, then switch to 82 octane for 2 hours, and so on, with the right storage facilities along the way intercepting it, and putting it into separate tanks. I believe how they know how to switch over, is to first know how long the switch in types to get to them, then the senders put a dye package into the fuel to alert the storage and distribution people that it is time to switch some valves, and send the next fuel into a different tank. Pretty close. We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it. Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was controlled from that room. They measured flow rates Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor it. |
#223
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Gasohol
"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
... We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it. Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was controlled from that room. They measured flow rates Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor it. Were it only that the ATC system was so automatic, instead of so antiquated. -- Matt Barrow Performance Homes, LLC. Cheyenne, WY |
#224
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Gasohol
He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly. Interesting post. Thanks Dave Paul N1431A KPLU |
#225
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Gasohol
Blueskies wrote: Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun intended) in the oil business... That's exactly how they make the mid grade gas. |
#226
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Gasohol
("David Lesher" wrote)
Since fuel injected cars took over; IMHO 99.99% of gas is all the same, save the uniform on the attendent. Attendant? :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesoro Tesoro's "fuel terminal" (in Roseville, MN) has pumps, and no building - just credit card payment boxes. It's the only place in the Twin Cities I've been able to find 87 OXY-Free. The other 'far-and-few-between' Non-OXY pumps, around town I've seen, are premium. Paul-Mont |
#227
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Gasohol
Matt Barrow wrote:
"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was controlled from that room. They measured flow rates Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor it. Were it only that the ATC system was so automatic, instead of so antiquated. And about 15 years ago, the operators at the storage facilities in Greensboro, NC were fined heavily for leaking fuels into ground water. They tried to claim they didn't know it was happening. Disk jockeys at the time were making fun of the fact that they pump would meter out gas to the hundredth of a gallon, but they couldn't keep track of the thousands that were pouring into the groundwater. 8*) Greensboro is my hometown. |
#228
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Gasohol
The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor it. Is there no diffusion at the boundaries? Jose -- You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#229
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Gasohol
Jose writes:
Is there no diffusion at the boundaries? There is some. How much is complex. It depends on what the two products are, the rate, and a big issue, is the line kept tight? By tight I mean, was it running non-stop at the same backpressure the whole time? If the line went up & down in rate because they added pumps or swung to a different tank, then there is a longer [time] or broader [linear feet of product] mix region. Some lines actually used spheres between, but they bring their own problems... For a real mess; picture a midline booster pump, only used for some products. You must keep track of what product is now in the booster station line section before you restart. No fair dumping Diesel or Kero into the gas going by.... but the opposite is OK. [Too much gas in the distillate is Not Allowed, but a bbl or 3 in a 100,000 bbl tank is no big deal.] -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#230
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Gasohol
"David Lesher" wrote Some lines actually used spheres between, but they bring their own problems... A little further OT,... I've watched a lot of heavy #6 (needs to be heated to pump) unloaded at the offshore platform. When the tanker is empty, we pig the pipe and backfill with #2. The methods seem crude to the observer, but the results are exact enough even for the accountants. |
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