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UK planning to evict N-registered aircraft



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 8th 05, 06:25 PM
Olivier Demacon
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George Patterson a écrit :
Peter wrote:
The UK Department for Transport has published a consultation document;
their aim is as stated above.


What's the stated logic behind this?

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.


If I was a U.K citizen I would fight this one real hard and try to stop
it NOW.

We have seen this happen in France (and with luck fail!). IMHO mainly
motivated by bureaucrats wanting to avoid having pilots using their FAA
licence to fly in France.

20 years ago it was not a problem at all for a french citizen to go to
the U.S, pass his pilot exams and come back to fly F- registered
aircraft after a single stop to the local DGAC office.....I've done it.

Not anymore unless you are a U.S resident!
This having nothing to do with safety issues, to the contrary but
simply to atempt to *HELP* french flight schools who, at that time, saw
many students go West.

Today if you reside in the US (or outside of the E.U) - You come to
France with a US licence, you can fly F registered aircraft without a
single hour of flight instruction! (altough I would highly recommend it
in regards to *MAJOR* diffrences such as flight levels, barometrics
pressures in MB, and phraseology over the Com).

But if you are a French citizen and reside in the E.U, your 'in for
taking all of the French written exams and flight tests if you want to
fly F-registered aircraft.

The solution is to find "N" registered aircraft, with greater and
greater numbers, so one can use, regardless of nationality or place of
residence, is F.A.A licence will all ratings.

As mentionned in this forum this is just about the only way private
pilots can fly I.F.R in France....a private IFR licence has been talked
about for years....to no avail. The *REAL IFR* ticket is not really in
reach of the "standard" business / family / adult pilot unless he has
20K¤, a year and brain cells to spare on totally irelevant material to
the private IR pilot.

IMHO G.A in Europe is nearly dead and I personnally rather go to the
U.S twice a year for some real flying / travelling, spending my money
with people who respect G.A.

Best of luck in the U.K.


  #12  
Old August 8th 05, 07:42 PM
Scott Moore
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Peter wrote:


The question one must ask is WHY people do this.


How about also that going "off N status" creates an aircraft
that is virtually unsaleable in the USA due to its having
a maintenence trail that makes it unfeasable to recertify
at reasonable cost for USA sale ? And that the USA market
is far better than UK ? How many aircraft have you seen
advertised in the UK that are begging to be sold in the USA,
or aircraft for UK sale that are bragging about having
an N number ?

  #13  
Old August 8th 05, 07:49 PM
Scott Moore
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Peter wrote:

Clearly it is difficult to achieve an effective timed residence ban
such as that proposed (90 days every 365 days) while allowing visiting
aircraft, because one obvious work-around is for the pilot to swap
aircraft every 90 days. While obviously most private pilots aren't
going to purchase, or rent/lease from outside the UK, a different
N-reg plane every 90 days (i.e. 4 a year), a larger fractional
ownership operation could be structured so the planes are rotated via
other countries. A multinational business operating say 4 jets could
keep 3 outside the UK and rotate them every 90 days, thus meeting this
requirement. So the proposal would screw the small private pilot,
while leaving the larger turboprop/jet groups much less affected.


Why can't UK owners just park the airplane across the channel in france
for some portion of the year ? Surely there has to be a percentage of
time resident or similar requirement. So UK owners just lease to a flight
club across the channel for a few months of the year.

  #14  
Old August 9th 05, 10:00 AM
Thomas Borchert
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Scott,

Why can't UK owners just park the airplane across the channel in france
for some portion of the year ?


Because it makes for a really long drive to the airport.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #15  
Old August 10th 05, 02:30 AM
Juan Jimenez
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In Argentina the same rule applies, foreign aircraft cannot stay for more
than 90 days at a time. So they fly to Uruguay for the day (preferably to
Punta del Este) and come back. Problem solved.

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Scott,

Why can't UK owners just park the airplane across the channel in france
for some portion of the year ?


Because it makes for a really long drive to the airport.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)



  #16  
Old August 10th 05, 09:02 AM
Simon Hobson
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On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:49:34 +0100, Scott Moore wrote
(in message ):

Clearly it is difficult to achieve an effective timed residence ban
such as that proposed (90 days every 365 days) while allowing visiting
aircraft, because one obvious work-around is for the pilot to swap
aircraft every 90 days. While obviously most private pilots aren't
going to purchase, or rent/lease from outside the UK, a different
N-reg plane every 90 days (i.e. 4 a year), a larger fractional
ownership operation could be structured so the planes are rotated via
other countries. A multinational business operating say 4 jets could
keep 3 outside the UK and rotate them every 90 days, thus meeting this
requirement. So the proposal would screw the small private pilot,
while leaving the larger turboprop/jet groups much less affected.


I had thought of this as well, but it would make for some really complicated
group structures !

Why can't UK owners just park the airplane across the channel in france
for some portion of the year ? Surely there has to be a percentage of
time resident or similar requirement. So UK owners just lease to a flight
club across the channel for a few months of the year.


The proposal isn't that you can only keep the plane in the UK for 90 days at
a time, it's for a limit of 90 days in the UK in any 12 months period (the 90
days bit is up for discussion). So you would have to have the plane outside
of the UK for the other 9 months.

As Peter suggested, one way around this (that would work only for larger
groups, so still screw the majority of private pilots) is to have a fleet of
five (four doesn't quite do it) planes and move them around the world as
required so that none of them exceed the 90 days limit.


The issues doesn't firectly and personally affect me at the moment, but I've
still put in my objections since it's guaranteed to affect me indirectly or
even directly in the future. One point I made was that it's a bit rich for
our authorities to decide what other countries should be happy with - if the
US authorities aren't happy with it's ability to oversee aircraft on it's
register that are overseas, then surely it's up to them to decide what to do
about it; if they are happy, then what right have out authorities to tell
them otherwise ?

  #17  
Old August 10th 05, 10:34 AM
Thomas Borchert
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Juan,

In Argentina the same rule applies,


Actually, IIRC, the rule planned for the UK is more sophisticated: 90
days out of 365 are the maximum allowed time in the UK.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #18  
Old August 10th 05, 07:41 PM
Scott Moore
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Simon Hobson wrote:

The proposal isn't that you can only keep the plane in the UK for 90 days at
a time, it's for a limit of 90 days in the UK in any 12 months period (the 90
days bit is up for discussion). So you would have to have the plane outside
of the UK for the other 9 months.


Do the UK FBOs realize that the government is actively trying to kill them off ?
I'm guessing the result would be to discourage fat cats from parking their
aircraft in the UK for too long.

  #19  
Old August 10th 05, 07:44 PM
Scott Moore
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Thomas Borchert wrote:
Juan,


In Argentina the same rule applies,



Actually, IIRC, the rule planned for the UK is more sophisticated: 90
days out of 365 are the maximum allowed time in the UK.


Undoubtedly they also have a regulation that requires UK registered
craft to stay in the UK for some period of time as well. By the
time anyone adds up all the rules the conclusion will be clear: avoid
the UK.

  #20  
Old August 10th 05, 11:15 PM
Juan Jimenez
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"Scott Moore" wrote in message
...
Thomas Borchert wrote:
Juan,
In Argentina the same rule applies,

Actually, IIRC, the rule planned for the UK is more sophisticated: 90
days out of 365 are the maximum allowed time in the UK.

Undoubtedly they also have a regulation that requires UK registered
craft to stay in the UK for some period of time as well. By the
time anyone adds up all the rules the conclusion will be clear: avoid
the UK.


I already figured that out.


 




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