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London Blitz vs V1



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 28th 03, 08:40 AM
Bernardz
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Default London Blitz vs V1

In early December 1944, General Bissel produced a paper which argued
strongly in favour of the V1.

The following is a table he produced

Blitz (12 months) vs V1 flying bombs (2 3/4 months)
-----------------------------------------------------
1. Cost to Germany
............................Blitz................. ...V1
Sorties...................90,000.................8 025
Weight of bombs...........61,149 tons............14,600 tons
Fuel consumed.............71,700 tons.............4681 tons
Aircrafts lost............3075....................0
Men lost..................7690....................0

2 Results
Houses damaged/destroyed...1,150,000............1,127,000
Casualties.................92,566...............22 ,892
Rate casualties/bombs tons...1.6...............4.2

3. Allied air effort
Sorties......................86,800............44, 770
Planes lost..................1260...............351
Men lost.....................805...............2233


Any comments!

--
What our descendants think of us and our ancestors will depend on what
we do now!

23th saying of Bernard

  #2  
Old December 28th 03, 12:11 PM
Cub Driver
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...........................Blitz................. ...V1
Sorties...................90,000................. 8025
Weight of bombs...........61,149 tons............14,600 tons
Fuel consumed.............71,700 tons.............4681 tons
Aircrafts lost............3075....................0


Shouldn't that be 8025 aircraft lost?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at
www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com
  #3  
Old December 28th 03, 01:08 PM
John Campbell
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Cub Driver wrote:

snip
Shouldn't that be 8025 aircraft lost?


Given the cost of the things probably not, IIRC UK manufacturing cost was
estimated at less than UKP 100 when a Spit was over 10K.

Also the germans did have some small losses due to air raids and more in
accidents with with the things


--
regards
jc

  #4  
Old December 28th 03, 02:02 PM
Eugene Griessel
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Bernardz wrote in message news:MPG.1a593408a1392c869897ea@news...
In early December 1944, General Bissel produced a paper which argued
strongly in favour of the V1.

The following is a table he produced

Blitz (12 months) vs V1 flying bombs (2 3/4 months)
-----------------------------------------------------
1. Cost to Germany
...........................Blitz.................. ..V1
Sorties...................90,000.................8 025
Weight of bombs...........61,149 tons............14,600 tons
Fuel consumed.............71,700 tons.............4681 tons
Aircrafts lost............3075....................0
Men lost..................7690....................0

2 Results
Houses damaged/destroyed...1,150,000............1,127,000
Casualties.................92,566...............22 ,892
Rate casualties/bombs tons...1.6...............4.2

3. Allied air effort
Sorties......................86,800............44, 770
Planes lost..................1260...............351
Men lost.....................805...............2233


For the cost of 1 uncrewed, unrefuelled and unbombladen Lancaster the
Germans were getting more than 300 V1s. Furthermore they made little
demand on skilled labour or strategic materials. On the negative side
they had all the inherent problems of a fairly slow unaimed weapon.
Of around 10000 launched at Britain only about 2400 reached the vague
proximity of their target area. And many fell fairly harmlessly -
aided by British manipulation of intelligence. But as an economic
weapon they made much sense and if they had arrived on the scene some
months earlier in far greater numbers, when proximity fuzed, radar
guided AA was not yet available they would undoubtedly have had a
proportionately much larger effect on the prosecution of the war.
Thanks to Hitler's intervention this did not happen.

Eugene Griessel
  #5  
Old December 28th 03, 05:59 PM
robert arndt
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Bernardz wrote in message news:MPG.1a593408a1392c869897ea@news...
In early December 1944, General Bissel produced a paper which argued
strongly in favour of the V1.

The following is a table he produced

Blitz (12 months) vs V1 flying bombs (2 3/4 months)
-----------------------------------------------------
1. Cost to Germany
...........................Blitz.................. ..V1
Sorties...................90,000.................8 025 (error: 8892)
Weight of bombs...........61,149 tons............14,600 tons
Fuel consumed.............71,700 tons.............4681 tons
Aircrafts lost............3075....................0 (error: 80, from air launches)
Men lost..................7690....................0

2 Results
Houses damaged/destroyed...1,150,000............1,127,000
Casualties.................92,566...............22 ,892 (error: figure is dead plus wounded, based on 6,184 dead/correction to 12,000 dead= close to 29,000 total)
Rate casualties/bombs tons...1.6...............4.2

3. Allied air effort
Sorties......................86,800............44, 770
Planes lost..................1260...............351
Men lost.....................805...............2233


Any comments!


34,000 V-1s were produced by Fiesler, Volkswagen, and the Mittelwerke.
Unit cost was RM 5000. Of all those produced only around 5000 found
their targets in the UK and Belgium. That makes it 20% effective of
those launched, the remaining number found stockpiled. It was a cost
effective weapon compared to a Mark IV tank (RM 100,000) but
militarily of little value. As a psychological/nuisance weapon it did
well but did not in any way deter the Allies from bombing Germany and
grabbing land. The Germans would have done better to replace the
amatol warhead with a radiological warhead. London and Antwerp would
have then been contaminated and abandoned.

Rob
  #6  
Old December 28th 03, 07:41 PM
Cub Driver
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:08:29 +1100, John Campbell
wrote:

Given the cost of the things probably not, IIRC UK manufacturing cost was
estimated at less than UKP 100 when a Spit was over 10K.


The V-1 cost a hundred quid? You could get five V-1s for the price of
a Piper Cub? That would be the all-time bargain in terror weapons.



all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at
www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com
  #7  
Old December 29th 03, 06:55 AM
Wayne Allen
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"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
The Allies weren't completely ignorant on the dangers of fission
material. The US constructed a giant collector called the "Dumbo" to
collect plutonium debris in case the test A-bomb blew up in NM. I
think "Dumbo" still survives. If NYC was hit similar large Dumbo-type
containers would have been used to collect the debris and the
radiation levels would have been studied.


Jumbo wasn't designed for collecting debris. It was a huge 200 ton
pressure
vessel. The bomb was to be put inside prior to the test, if the silly
thing fizzled
the pressure vessel was to prevent anything from getting out.
Moving a tub that big through a population site gathering up bits and
pieces would
have caused even more contamination. Better a group of trained people with
man-portable
gear.


  #8  
Old December 29th 03, 07:01 AM
Eugene Griessel
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Cub Driver wrote in message . ..

The V-1 cost a hundred quid? You could get five V-1s for the price of
a Piper Cub? That would be the all-time bargain in terror weapons.


A British commission (RAE) just after WW2 concluded that the cost of a
V1, fuelled and armed (including the 200 pounds of Hydrogen Peroxide
needed for the launch) came to about 115 pounds. But that figure also
included a percentage of R&D and the cost of building Peenemunde.
They concluded that the raw cost of materials and manufacture was
around 87 pounds sterling. The average price the German government was
billed by the Volkswagen Fallersleben plant came to around 125 quid.
  #9  
Old December 29th 03, 07:28 AM
Wayne Allen
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Default

Afternoon all,

I've been trying to do a little research on this General Bissel and his
paper
on the V1 attacks, I have to admit defeat so-far. Does anyone have any
information on him? I take it this is not the American General because the
name
is incorrect and he would have had his hands full out in the Asian Theater
at the time.
There are a few things I don't get with these figure either, the
numbers I get
from British sites claim only over 1000 homes destroyed, a difference of
over a
multiple of a thousand!
I also don't get the 351 planes and 2233 crew lost by the allies in
defense. Lost
how? Other than getting too close when shooting a ton of explosives
(weekend-spoiler)
what was the problem? 351 planes lost in 2 1/2 months is either a nutty
misprint or
criminal negligence.
Anyone have a contact or copy of the original report?



In early December 1944, General Bissel produced a paper which argued
strongly in favour of the V1.

The following is a table he produced

Blitz (12 months) vs V1 flying bombs (2 3/4 months)
-----------------------------------------------------
1. Cost to Germany
...........................Blitz.................. ..V1
Sorties...................90,000.................8 025
Weight of bombs...........61,149 tons............14,600 tons
Fuel consumed.............71,700 tons.............4681 tons
Aircrafts lost............3075....................0
Men lost..................7690....................0

2 Results
Houses damaged/destroyed...1,150,000............1,127,000
Casualties.................92,566...............22 ,892
Rate casualties/bombs tons...1.6...............4.2

3. Allied air effort
Sorties......................86,800............44, 770
Planes lost..................1260...............351
Men lost.....................805...............2233





  #10  
Old December 29th 03, 10:13 AM
Dave Eadsforth
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Default

In article , Eugene
Griessel writes
Cub Driver wrote in message news:4j8uuv4648rrmgp
...

The V-1 cost a hundred quid? You could get five V-1s for the price of
a Piper Cub? That would be the all-time bargain in terror weapons.


A British commission (RAE) just after WW2 concluded that the cost of a
V1, fuelled and armed (including the 200 pounds of Hydrogen Peroxide
needed for the launch) came to about 115 pounds. But that figure also
included a percentage of R&D and the cost of building Peenemunde.
They concluded that the raw cost of materials and manufacture was
around 87 pounds sterling. The average price the German government was
billed by the Volkswagen Fallersleben plant came to around 125 quid.


Astonishingly low materials cost - and I guess that the workers were not
paid union rates...

When the first couple of V1s fell on Britain on the 16th of July, the
immediate reaction of the authorities was:

1. These items must be costly to built - the Germans really have taken
a wrong turning here.

2. We don't know how they are guided - but in case they happen to home
in on radio signals, perhaps we'd better stop the BBC from transmitting
when we detect some incoming...

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth
 




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