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#1
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
Can anyone explain the reason for the note "maximum procedure turn
entry altitude 6000 feet" on the ILS or LOC RWY 20 at KALW, Walla Wala Regl, WA? Is this a TERPs thing? Other approaches the same? Here's the link, I think http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../KALWils20.gif |
#3
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
"Roy Smith" wrote in message ...
In article , wrote: Can anyone explain the reason for the note "maximum procedure turn entry altitude 6000 feet" on the ILS or LOC RWY 20 at KALW, Walla Wala Regl, WA? Is this a TERPs thing? Other approaches the same? Here's the link, I think http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../KALWils20.gif My guess is that if you enter the PT above 6000, you can't make it down to the runway without exceeding some TERPS-mandated maximum descent profile. If you flew the PT as a teardrop entry, 1 minute outbound, roughly 1 minute to turn around, 1 minute inbound, that's 2700 feet to lose in 3 minutes, or 900 ft/minute. Pretty steep. Yet, no similar note accompanies the NDB RWY 20 approach. |
#4
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
Roy Smith writes:
wrote: Can anyone explain the reason for the note "maximum procedure turn entry altitude 6000 feet" on the ILS or LOC RWY 20 at KALW, Walla Wala Regl, WA? Is this a TERPs thing? Other approaches the same? Here's the link, I think http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../KALWils20.gif My guess is that if you enter the PT above 6000, you can't make it down to the runway without exceeding some TERPS-mandated maximum descent profile. If you flew the PT as a teardrop entry, 1 minute outbound, roughly 1 minute to turn around, 1 minute inbound, that's 2700 feet to lose in 3 minutes, or 900 ft/minute. Pretty steep. Is there anything that says you can't make more than one lap around the loop? Are there enroute altitudes in the area that would lead to being quite high when nearing the approach area? Is there a reception problem with the navaid(s) defining the pattern? |
#5
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
wrote:
Can anyone explain the reason for the note "maximum procedure turn entry altitude 6000 feet" on the ILS or LOC RWY 20 at KALW, Walla Wala Regl, WA? Is this a TERPs thing? Other approaches the same? Here's the link, I think http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../KALWils20.gif There is no provision in TERPS for such a restriction. It appears to be a misapplication of criteria. |
#6
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
As a follow up, looking at the low level enroute, there is no
restricted or otherwise airspace that may have affected the altitude. Secondly, there are a few other airports in WA with similar 6000 max altitude for the PT. RLD Richland is one, so is OLM Olympia. In fact the RLD PT descends you to 1900 feet for a total descent of 4100 feet, so it doesn't seem to be a TERPS descent gradient limitation for ALW. Of note, all the 6000 foot max notations are on very recently amended approaches, so they appear to be recent additions. I'm only guessing it's some new TERPS criteria, possible to limit the TAS and help keep the pilot within the 10 nm PT distance. Roy, I've appreciated reading your responses over the years. Am I right to think you've been contributing for 15+ years? Dave On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:58:04 -0500, in rec.aviation.ifr you wrote: In article , wrote: Can anyone explain the reason for the note "maximum procedure turn entry altitude 6000 feet" on the ILS or LOC RWY 20 at KALW, Walla Wala Regl, WA? Is this a TERPs thing? Other approaches the same? Here's the link, I think http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../KALWils20.gif My guess is that if you enter the PT above 6000, you can't make it down to the runway without exceeding some TERPS-mandated maximum descent profile. If you flew the PT as a teardrop entry, 1 minute outbound, roughly 1 minute to turn around, 1 minute inbound, that's 2700 feet to lose in 3 minutes, or 900 ft/minute. Pretty steep. On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:58:04 -0500, Roy Smith wrote: In article , wrote: Can anyone explain the reason for the note "maximum procedure turn entry altitude 6000 feet" on the ILS or LOC RWY 20 at KALW, Walla Wala Regl, WA? Is this a TERPs thing? Other approaches the same? Here's the link, I think http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../KALWils20.gif My guess is that if you enter the PT above 6000, you can't make it down to the runway without exceeding some TERPS-mandated maximum descent profile. If you flew the PT as a teardrop entry, 1 minute outbound, roughly 1 minute to turn around, 1 minute inbound, that's 2700 feet to lose in 3 minutes, or 900 ft/minute. Pretty steep. |
#7
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
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#8
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:37:07 GMT, wrote:
As a follow up, looking at the low level enroute, there is no restricted or otherwise airspace that may have affected the altitude. Secondly, there are a few other airports in WA with similar 6000 max altitude for the PT. RLD Richland is one, so is OLM Olympia. In fact the RLD PT descends you to 1900 feet for a total descent of 4100 feet, so it doesn't seem to be a TERPS descent gradient limitation for ALW. Of note, all the 6000 foot max notations are on very recently amended approaches, so they appear to be recent additions. I'm only guessing it's some new TERPS criteria, possible to limit the TAS and help keep the pilot within the 10 nm PT distance. They don't do a descent in PTs? Best I can do is 800 fpm so take 500 as a standard that lets me do 1000 feet each time I go around. It keeps the speed normal and the distances normal. I've never see any max notations. Used to be out here in the the flat lands you might get a PT descent, or get stacked up and move your way down the stack. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#9
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
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#10
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Maximum PT entry altitude Notation
limitation for ALW.
Of note, all the 6000 foot max notations are on very recently amended approaches, so they appear to be recent additions. I'm only guessing it's some new TERPS criteria, possible to limit the TAS and help keep the pilot within the 10 nm PT distance. They don't do a descent in PTs? Best I can do is 800 fpm so take 500 as a standard that lets me do 1000 feet each time I go around. It keeps the speed normal and the distances normal. Roger, by limit the TAS, I meant that for the same IAS, the TAS will be higher at higher altitudes. And so easier for the pilot to exit the PT distance |
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